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Please read this story carefully—there is a problem here. Should consumer protection organizations take action, or should the legislature step in?
- The First Surveyor
He declared that Lot 2 encroached by four feet onto his client’s property. This was strange, given the “L-shaped” configuration of the lot and the fact that the area had already been rebuilt after Superstorm Sandy. - The Second Surveyor
Instead of verifying the facts, he accepted what others told him and stamped the survey. I have video evidence of him admitting that he relied on the idea that the bulkhead had been “bumped out.” - The Third Surveyor
A licensed waterfront surveyor, he testified that the four-foot discrepancy was caused by the bulkheader during reconstruction after Sandy—before he even conducted a survey. This statement is captured on a police video. Because of his credentials and long-standing reputation, everyone believed him. I later recorded audio of myself pleading with him to reconsider, explaining there had been a mistake. His attorney then left a phone message saying I “had the opportunity to sue the engineer, but didn’t.”
At this point, things no longer made sense.
- The Fourth Surveyor
He partially completed his work, marking corners along Bay Avenue but not the northeast bulkhead corner. He noted that Post’s northeast corner marker was off by about two feet. - The Fifth Surveyor
He confirmed there was a two-foot problem but declined to proceed. - The Sixth Surveyor
Initially, he confirmed that the point of beginning for my property was at the capped rebar identified in my deed. But when the neighbor from Lot 1 threatened litigation, he withdrew and returned my check. - The Bulkhead Removal
My bulkhead was taken out, creating a crevice between the properties. - The Seventh Surveyor
After three weeks of review and multiple site visits, he refused to continue, citing the liability risk. He also returned my check. - The Eighth Surveyor
His plat showed that my Lot 2 measurements now fall in the middle of the crevice, nearly two feet away from the line the first three surveyors testified to. - Waiting for the Ninth and Tenth surveys
So here is the question: If surveyors lied—or at the very least failed in their duty of care—do I have a case? And more broadly, how many other homeowners could face the same issue?
This isn’t just about one property line. It’s about whether consumers are protected from professional negligence—or whether the law needs to step in.
Thank you.
The legislature will do nothing. You need to go with the consumer protection route. You can file a complaint against an individual surveyor with your state Board of Registration for Land Surveyors. It would help your case immensely if you familiarize yourself with your state regulations pertaining to the practice of land surveying. (example: Chapter 250 of the Code of Massachusetts Regulations). Your complaint(s) need to articulate how the surveyor violated the regulations. The more specific your complaint, the better. You probably will not find a violation of the regulations that you can file a complaint about regarding the surveyors that backed out of the project and returned your money. As for the others, you might be able to pursue a claim of unprofessional conduct or incompetent work.
It sounds like your situation on the ground is very challenging for performing a lot boundary survey. If you still need to get this work completed, I suggest you avoid the low bidders. Seek out a surveyor with a positive reputation. Perhaps also one who participates in the activities of the surveyor's professional association (serves on committees, on board of directors, holds a local chapter office - example: Massachusetts Association of Land Surveyor and Civil Engineers). This often demonstrates that an individual is focused on professionalism, not just bringing home a paycheck.
Be aware that the Board of Registration and the professional association are two distinct entities. The Board of Registration is part of the state government and regulates the licensing and practice of surveying. The professional association is a private entity, like the Better Business Bureau or the American Heart Association.
There are numerous situations, even outside natural disasters, that require a PLS to use the tangible evidence, what can be seen and measured, even though they trust and believe their client's opinion as to where the old line once was. This is due to our responsibility to the public, which means that we have to consider the abutting landowner's rights in equal proportion to our client's.
It's usually a disagreement concerning the weighting or value of evidence that causes disagreements. I had a client who is still upset with me because I connected his boundary to an thirty year old iron pipe I found in the centerline of the road and also located by other PLSs. He remembered the true corner as being next to a utility pole but he and I both searched many hours and couldn't find it, and we couldn't find a picture, any physical evidence of it, or a realistic way of recreating its position. I believe he was right, and I told him I'd amend my plat if he found it or found a picture or similar showing the pipe. However, I couldn't ignore the pipe I found and then connect the boundary to his strong feelings of where it aught to be. I don't believe a judge would've either.
Good luck! May you chase the ghosts in your own arguments with the same fervor you hunt for skeletons in others'.
I long ago decided to remain as far away from these types of boundary disagreements as possible.
Just this week I find myself dragged into one.
Sometimes you can't escape, try as you might.
I read all of your post. I'm curious. You mention wanting to be protected from professional negligence. Can you tell me what each or any of those surveyors did or did not do that arose to professional negligence? Certainly, returning your money and not accepting the project are not negligent, but what do you feel they did that was?
@mightymoe Boy can I relate. There's almost never any upside, but the downside is almost limitless.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
I'm afraid that lawsuits are not going to make things better for you. Surveyors are painfully aware of liability issues that can ruin their careers. This is probably why the ones who backed out did back out. Unlike attorneys, we do not represent just one client, but consider everyone affected by the boundary we are surveying. It might be difficult to hear this, but you really should talk with your neighbor. There are things called boundary line agreements that can work and are much less expensive than litigation. Also, please contact your state board about the surveyors with whom you disagree. The board will likely open an investigation to see if any of those surveyors were negligent. State boards do not support negligent surveyors and will take action against them. Please consider a boundary line agreement. Also, you don't mention finding out what the evidence was that Surveyor #1 used for his decision. You may want to look at that as well.
Instead of verifying the facts, he accepted what others told him
Testimony of people with local knowledge is a valid source of boundary evidence.
Instead of verifying the facts, he accepted what others told him
Testimony of people with local knowledge is a valid source of boundary evidence.
While I agree with the above, I would caution surveyors in the use of such evidence. It's a good idea to limit your opinion of the boundary location to evidence that would be admissible at trial. By all means use the local knowledge to guide you to evidence you can get before the court and base your survey on that.
Questions you can ask yourself of information told to you before you base your survey on it:
Can this person be called as a witness?
Is this a disinterested third party?
Do you have an audio recording the witness can be asked to verify at trial?
Every survey should be in preparation for litigation.
I think there are a few things that you should consider. Surveyors do not have any authority over landowners, land tracks, or the boundaries thereof. No landowner is compelled to accept the opinion of any surveyor, even one that he hired. But licensed surveyors are the only ones recognized by the state to be competent to state an opinion on land boundaries.
Surveyors work from the evidence at hand. Lack of sufficient evidence can render a surveyors opinion to be less than certain.
Landowners are prone to think of their deed as the equivalent to a car title. A car title is a uniform document provided by the state. The state reviews a car title for validity and is strong evidence of ownership. For Deeds and other real estate records, the state only provides a repository where landowners can record the documents they sign. The state makes no review for correctness or the validity of ownership.
Landowners should understand that boundaries are somewhat like a roof. Sooner or later both will need repair. Negligence of roof or boundary can have consequences. Don't expect a surveyor to provide a fix for long-term negligence.
As the landowner, you have three actions you might consider. First is a formal complaint to the state Board for surveying. State boards review a surveyors work for compliance with minimum standards. Don't expect the board to even consider whether the boundary opinion was correct. A state board may elect to warn a surveyor for non-compliance or require the work to be revised to meet standards. The board can fine a surveyor or revoke the surveyor's license. The board cannot award you damages for incompetent work.
You can bring a civil action against a surveyor for negligent work. The court will not consider the above minimum standards as a test for negligence. The plaintiff must prove that the surveyor used less care than other surveyors working in the same area. That is almost impossible to do without the testimony of other area surveyors.
You can file a civil complaint and ask the court to determine the boundary. Avoid this if at all possible. Seek a boundary solution that is agreeable to you and the adjoining landowner.
Kim, ive read every word, my sincere hope is that you are unable to find a licensed surveyor willing to sign a contract and give you a professional, stamped document. You are not ready to get professional work. I doubt you ever will be, but I wont rule out the possibility. Ive consulted in boundary disputes for 40 years, and wouldn't take your phone call. Good luck
@mountainhermit "State boards do not support negligent surveyors and will take action against them." This is true in most cases, but not all.
Peter Lothian gave great advice.
However, reading that there were so many surveyors involved and none have provided you with results that satisfy you, I'm wondering if it's the surveyors opinions and practices that are problematic or if it's your mistaken expectations of boundary locations. If it were 1, 2 or even 3, I can imagine that you might have the poor luck of having found those among the questionably competent in a metropolitan area where there may be dozens of different survey companies to choose from. But when you start getting beyond that who are mostly providing similar opinions, and particularly some that have decided that your project (or perhaps you) are too much of a risk to proceed with, I'm thinking that you may need to revisit your ideas of where the boundary actually is and what you are basing those ideas on.
Maybe, just maybe you've had exceptionally bad luck and the most competent of the surveyors you've engaged (or attempted to engage) are those who realized that the complications in this project are beyond their abilities and had the integrity to back out rather than make matters worse. If this is the case, the most likely reason for finding so many questionably competent surveyors from a much broader pool that certainly has some very highly competent surveyors is that you have been trying to find a surveyor to do the job at a "reasonable" price.
Is it a better deal to pay several to provide results that you don't have confidence in or to pay one person considerably more to provide results that are difficult to argue with and provide a high degree of confidence.
On that point, you can pay a few bargain service providers and get the quality of work and knowledge that you paid for, or you can recognize that your boundary problem is not a simple one that a minimally competent level of knowledge is adequate to and look for a highly experienced and competent surveyor, being prepared to pay perhaps several times what you paid to the bargain bin surveyors. Go in with the expectation that the results may not be what you want but that regardless of the results, you want the surveyor to prepare a report detailing what evidence was considered, what was relied upon and the reasoning underpinning each decision in the weighing of available evidence.
If you're continuing to pursue this, be aware that you have stacked up quite a body of boundary opinions you don't like in addition to some who have cut their losses and left. If you take it to court, you will need a surveyor who is highly respected, highly knowledgeable and highly articulate if he or she is going to be expressing an opinion counter to those several other surveyors. If you have someone lacking in any of those qualities, then there will be no reason that their credibility will rise above that of the previous surveyors. The ability to project that level of credibility is somewhat rare and does not come cheap.
If you do end up hiring someone with the apparent experience, knowledge and ability to communicate who is willing to take your project and provide detailed results, be prepared to accept results you may not like. Even if you then get results that you do like, be prepared to spend a lot more $$$ in legal fees and then be disappointed in the judgment. At the trial level, the judge may be very interested in the evidence, but more often, it comes down to the skill of the attorney and the ability of the survey expert to communicate complex matters into easily understandable ideas. The most likeable (and reasonably competent) attorney with the most articulate expert (sometimes regardless of technical competence) often wins at trial.
This person also posted on Reddit r/surveying and is searching for answers they probably already know just refuse to acknowledge. If someone requires contacting as many surveyors as they claim to have contacted, then no surveyor will ever be correct unless they agree with this person. There’s one common denominator of the problem and it’s appears to be the OP.
... At the trial level, the judge may be very interested in the evidence, but more often, it comes down to the skill of the attorney and the ability of the survey expert to communicate complex matters into easily understandable ideas. The most likeable (and reasonably competent) attorney with the most articulate expert (sometimes regardless of technical competence) often wins at trial.
Very true! I would add for most boundary disputes the attorney has little experience. A bad pleading, ineffective discovery, or the wrong legal argument of the facts won't prevail even with the best of surveys. A good surveyor who has knowledge of the rules of evidence, the importance of pleadings, how to draft effective interrogatories, and write a report outlining the legal argument supported by survey, can guide an attorney to a good result.