PA Man dies from rattlesnake bite

That is indeed tragic. Apparently, like bee stings, there are some folks that have a violent reaction to snake venom. As a kid, one of our gang was bitten by a water moccasin at the local fishing pond. Although we got him home quickly, his hand swelled like a " blowed up rubber glove ". He made it to the hospital and was home by that evening in good spirits.

I was once told by a "wildlife expert" in Oklahoma there were no snakes with venom powerful enough to kill a human "on the spot", as opposed to the African Black Mamba or a Coral snake. I'm not taking any chances however. If I, or anybody on my crew, ever gets 'snakebit', we're driving fast and straight to the nearest medical rendezvous...

John Hamilton, post: 328178, member: 640 wrote: For the first time in at least 25 years a man dies from a rattlesnake bite in PA. It happened in Elk County, which is an area with a project I survey every year.

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/region/2015/07/19/Beaver-County-man-dies-after-rattlesnake-bite-in-Elk-County/stories/201507190201&apos ;">Man dies from snake bite

I have never seen a rattlesnake in PA, but I have seen them elsewhere. So, even though medical help is sought quickly, and anti-venom administered, one can still die. I have seen plenty of other poisonous snakes in PA, mostly copperheads and water moccasins. Never came close to being bit.

I think a lot depends where you get bit and if the venom makes it into the vascular system where it can spread through out the body to affect major organs. An unlucky shot into a vein or artery and I don't think there is much time. From what I understand about rattle snake venom, it's a decoagulant and causes tissue to break down and blood cells to rupture as opposed to a neurotoxin like the coral snake and cobra produce which causes paralysis and suffocation. What might be note worthy (besides tragic) about this happening in PA is the possibility that rattle snakes might be expanding their ranges farther north with the trend to warmer temperatures putting them in places where people are not accustomed to looking for and dealing with them.

There are some doctors getting away from anti-venom for treatment of copperhead bites. They will keep the anti-venom as an option and closely monitor the patient.

This is a study done locally on snakebites:
http://www.journalacs.org/article/S1072-7515%2811%2900007-X/abstract

My wife was two of those patients. She didn't learn her lesson the first time. No anti-venom either time.

James

That is very interesting. I did not know that copperhead and water moccasin bites do not require anti-venom.

I was told at the time of her first bite that the majority of deaths from snakebites in the US were patients that had underlying medical issues, alcoholism, or drug abuse.

I know reports or accounts of what happened are not always accurate but the first mistake I see in the case in Pennsylvania is
"He went running into the camp and told his girlfriend to take him to a hospital"

If that actually happened, I bet that really got the blood flowing.

I had learned in EMT class in 1990 to put ice on the bite. Now they say, "whatever you do, DO NOT put ice on it".

James

And the article says:

‰ÛÏYou don‰Ûªt use constriction bands or tourniquets. You don‰Ûªt cut the wound and try to suck out the venom. ‰Û? You want to notify EMS and get to a hospital,‰Û

So he should have called EMS right away. I would assume in an area like that they would know what to do. Maybe not here in the city, but that is a very rural and mountainous area.

My understanding is that you should never drive to the hospital with a snake bite without calling first. Often in a given area only one hospital will have the anti-venom as it is very expensive. The emt's know which one has it.

Williwaw, post: 328186, member: 7066 wrote: I think a lot depends where you get bit and if the venom makes it into the vascular system where it can spread through out the body to affect major organs. An unlucky shot into a vein or artery and I don't think there is much time. From what I understand about rattle snake venom, it's a decoagulant and causes tissue to break down and blood cells to rupture as opposed to a neurotoxin like the coral snake and cobra produce which causes paralysis and suffocation. What might be note worthy (besides tragic) about this happening in PA is the possibility that rattle snakes might be expanding their ranges farther north with the trend to warmer temperatures putting them in places where people are not accustomed to looking for and dealing with them.

Actually I watched a tv show on venomous snakes and it said that certain types of rattlesnakes can have either type of venom and that to be treated properly the snake should be captured or killed if possible to determine the best method of treatment.

I have always been told to get a good description or picture of the snake or if possible kill it and bring it with you. But in the heat of the moment that is obviously not always possible.

High jack...

Had a guy I went to church with briefly who moved down here to get away from NY. Nice guy, the best intentions really, BUT it is hard to adapt to country living when all you know if concrete.

anyway....He and his wife decided they would start a chicken operation, which they got a loan for and did. They managed, albeit I don't know how, but chickens attract copperheads...bit time. So he was cleaning out one of the feeders and there was a copperhead underneath that he did not see. He got bit on the hand. They did the right thing and called ahead of time and they told him to bring the snake with him, which they did......ALIVE!!! No joke, caught the copperhead and held it's head all the way to the hospital!!!! It's a wonder it didn't get loose in the car.

TRUE STORY!!!

A forester Oglethorpe County, Georgia (one county away) died about a month or two ago from a Timber Rattler bite. It was the first time in my life I ever heard of someone anywhere near here dying from a snake bite. They said he had lime disease and that might have weakened his immune system.

Working on a project from Pittsburgh to Philadelphia. Some of the mountainous areas are home to rattlers. We were told if bit to call 911 and tell them to bring the anti-venom with them, or direct us to the nearest location that had it.

On a project near Clearfield a few years ago, the area was polluted with them. Saw at least 6 a day. The very first one I saw, I was tailing a piece of fabrication through tall grass. I came to a clearing about 10' in diameter. As I stepped in, one slithered toward me from the other end.

I recall saying, in my coolest, calmest, Barry White like voice "Hey, look guys, there's a rattlesnake." The crew tells that my voice took upon the characteristics of a 12 year old girl at a Justin Bieber concert and jumped 15' to the sideboom in two steps...

Ah, rattlesnakes. Spent 25 years in rattlesnake country both at home in the woods and surveying in the field. Saw dozens of them, either in the cold of morning under rocks and firewood helpless to attack me, or sunning in a nice spot in early morning which I gave a wide berth to, or just a glimpse of their body as they trundled into the brush during 70å¡ to 90å¡ weather. I've never heard a rattle in the field, probably because of advice from my first party chief, "be noisy, walk loudly, wear high boots (but not leggings, too hot to wear unless you're running a chain saw) and mostly, you see or hear one, back away.

You've got to have really bad luck to die from a rattlesnake bite: "Several thousand snakebites occur annually in the US, but fewer than 10 deaths occur. Most deaths are from envenomations by rattlesnakes (Crotalus species)."

Two things stick out for me concerning rattlesnakes:

• In the 70's the local animal control officers in a desert clime where there was winter with a hard freeze and snow would get reports of rattlesnake dens near town from locals in the spring. They'd douse the den with gasoline and torch 100s, maybe thousands of snakes in a grand show of force. The one I witnessed was a culvert choked with rocks, et. al. and it was not a pretty sight when they burned it out. Since then I've accepted rattlesnakes are valid stewards of the land; they do a good job of controlling vermin even around your house.
• Long ago actually had someone on the crew get bit, "Yogi", the itinerant prospector who worked summers on a BLM remote site survey crew in Northern Idaho. Illiterate, 55 years old but a hardened mountain man and great lead chainman brush buster, he was a superstar in my 20 year old mind. His personal reason to be on the crew was so he could check out likely undiscovered prospects near line at government expense. A weird guy, wore Keds basketball shoes because his feet were messed up, and he would wander off now and then only to return to the line crew with even more rocks in his backpack. Anyway, a rattler hit him just above his shoe and he hobbled back to line; it was obvious he'd been hit based on the two punctures swelling above his shoe and the 3 footer he'd killed with his range rod. He was in distress, but convinced us to leave him alone and let him sit under a tree for a while to see how it all played out (help was one day away, no helicopter and radios back then). He whipped out his flask, downed it and underwent what I can only describe as a seizure. Twenty minutes later he felt much better, got up and finished out the day with no ill effects. Neil the party chief said it must have been a "dry bite", nothing to worry about. Coolest thing about Yogi was when he showed up the following year he'd married a 19 year old mountain woman who was literate although with the thickest glasses you've ever seen and they were both desperately in love all summer. I'm jealous of the guy even though I've never been in contact with him since 1976.

Mike Marks, post: 328264, member: 1108 wrote: Ah, rattlesnakes. Spent 25 years in rattlesnake country both at home in the woods and surveying in the field. Saw dozens of them, either in the cold of morning under rocks and firewood helpless to attack me, or sunning in a nice spot in early morning which I gave a wide berth to, or just a glimpse of their body as they trundled into the brush during 70å¡ to 90å¡ weather. I've never heard a rattle in the field, probably because of advice from my first party chief, "be noisy, walk loudly, wear high boots (but not leggings, too hot to wear unless you're running a chain saw) and mostly, you see or hear one, back away.

You've got to have really bad luck to die from a rattlesnake bite: "Several thousand snakebites occur annually in the US, but fewer than 10 deaths occur. Most deaths are from envenomations by rattlesnakes (Crotalus species)."

Two things stick out for me concerning rattlesnakes:

• In the 70's the local animal control officers in a desert clime where there was winter with a hard freeze and snow would get reports of rattlesnake dens near town from locals in the spring. They'd douse the den with gasoline and torch 100s, maybe thousands of snakes in a grand show of force. The one I witnessed was a culvert choked with rocks, et. al. and it was not a pretty sight when they burned it out. Since then I've accepted rattlesnakes are valid stewards of the land; they do a good job of controlling vermin even around your house.
• Long ago actually had someone on the crew get bit, "Yogi", the itinerant prospector who worked summers on a BLM remote site survey crew in Northern Idaho. Illiterate, 55 years old but a hardened mountain man and great lead chainman brush buster, he was a superstar in my 20 year old mind. His personal reason to be on the crew was so he could check out likely undiscovered prospects near line at government expense. A weird guy, wore Keds basketball shoes because his feet were messed up, and he would wander off now and then only to return to the line crew with even more rocks in his backpack. Anyway, a rattler hit him just above his shoe and he hobbled back to line; it was obvious he'd been hit based on the two punctures swelling above his shoe and the 3 footer he'd killed with his range rod. He was in distress, but convinced us to leave him alone and let him sit under a tree for a while to see how it all played out (help was one day away, no helicopter and radios back then). He whipped out his flask, downed it and underwent what I can only describe as a seizure. Twenty minutes later he felt much better, got up and finished out the day with no ill effects. Neil the party chief said it must have been a "dry bite", nothing to worry about. Coolest thing about Yogi was when he showed up the following year he'd married a 19 year old mountain woman who was literate although with the thickest glasses you've ever seen and they were both desperately in love all summer. I'm jealous of the guy even though I've never been in contact with him since 1976.

Good story MM!

Don

Grew up where rattlesnakes were plentiful, SD. Worked around them many times in the Dakotas, Wyoming, Utah and Montana as well as other places. Used to hunt them in prairie dog towns in the fall when they would den up for the winter. (Don't ask me why I was young and dumb killed everything I could, now know they do far more good than harm).

Didn't have a problem pinning them down and picking them up to take to show someone an especially nice one, so am not really snake nervous- you leave them alone they will leave you alone unless you suprise them. That said had an interesting morning one day when working along a rural road in MT, in tall grass, packing a GPS receiver and back pack (trimble 4700's) along with a metal detector and shovel when I felt something squishy under my foot. Looked down and found I was about in the midlle of a 3+ ft. long rattlesnake. Fortunately it was early morning and a bit cool, so the snake was sluggish, but I wasn't, suspect I set a record for the long jump, at least for an old fat guy packing all the equipment I was, and no I didn't dispatch it, just paid attention when I walked back and forth in that area.

ScottB.

Here is another article in today's paper, with some more information. I think this has all been very useful, I learned some good things from this whole discussion.

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/region/2015/07/21/A-rattlesnake-s-mistake/stories/201507210090&apos ;">Follow-up Rattlesnake article

For a minute, I was certain I knew why things went wrong. From the article: "He received an antivenin treatment" Silly me thought antivenom would have been far better than antivenin. Then I discovered....

Antivenom (or antivenin or antivenene) is a biological product used in the treatment of venomous bites or stings. Antivenom is created by milking venom from the desired snake, spider, insect, or fish. The venom is then diluted and injected into a horse, sheep, rabbit, or goat.

Setting up the gun one morning, I heard rattling. More than one. I lifted my boot and it got louder. Put my boot back on the hole. Haven't moved from that spot in 30 years. Still here... 😉