If you do put the magnet in, does the counter sink bit make the hole deep enough for both the magnet and the marker?
Thanks!
I've never used the magnets. I know that the drill does go deeper than the stem length, but I don't know whether it goes deep enough to accommodate 1/2" of magnet.
VRMTSRVY, post: 386169, member: 7295 wrote: Does a schonstedt pick up the copper at all?
No, it really doesn't. The plugs aren't pure copper. There is a little something in the alloy that rings the pin finder slightly, but you have to be right on top of it. The pin finder is not really useful for these things. They are always at surface on a slab, sidewalk, or curb top. What do you need a pin finder for?
I've never added a magnet. As Jim says the drill bit goes a bit deeper than the stud, so there might be room. If not you could always go deeper with a regular hammer drill bit. I just don't see the purpose in it, unless you are proposing to place them in a concrete post in the manner of setting brass caps, Then you could just put a few spikes in the wet concrete.
20v DeWalt SDS Hammer Drill w/depth gauge makes quick work with a 5/16in hole for a 60d nail (or whatever)
Round the top of the hole with old file and the nail will fit flush.
Or size it for rebar.
20v DeWalt vacuum/blower cleans it out.
Dap on something to seal and keep in hole.
Most concrete has rebar inside and pin finders go crazy.
Scribed "X" and a good description....
We use the copper caps with the rare earth magnets. The MD sings loud and clear.
We have a 32v hammer drill that makes quick work of setting them. It's nice in town as you have room to stamp 2'WC or RM on the cap.
Jim Frame, post: 386085, member: 10 wrote: Have you seen a problem with the plastic inserts and freeze/thaw? I don't have to worry about that around here, but I've installed dozens of them with the plastic inserts and they've stayed put. When I had to remove two of them (an oops situation), I had to drill through the tops down to the stems to get the tops off, because a chisel wasn't getting me anywhere. (I didn't even try to remove the stems, they were in too tight -- I just grouted over the holes.)
No, actually I don't think we have. It just became an idea, probably when someone forgot to take the inserts to the field. In addition to the pre-drilling saving on the life of the countersink bit we can drill deep enough to drop a small magnet in the hole complying with statutes regarding magnetic attraction for boundary markers.
We use these a lot on airports and so far they last as long as the concrete is there.
We also use them in rock and concrete for property corners instead of a chiseled cross which is not compliant with Colorado statutes regarding boundary markers.
KScott, post: 386404, member: 1455 wrote: so far they last as long as the concrete is there.
They have been in common use in Portland for close to 10 years now. I can't recall ever seeing one loose or popped out of it's hole.
We use a hammer drill and set the 1-1/2" aluminum caps on a ribbed stem, they come with a magnet, or we drill through and set an aluminum cap on rebar, just below surface and grouted in, either way I haven't seen one disturbed yet. When doing it in concrete or pavement there will be a time when it's replaced, that's just the way it works. They are redoing a long section of city street that I worked on in the early 80's, everything getting ripped out, including all the property corners, a 35 year time limit for all the monuments.
MightyMoe, post: 386409, member: 700 wrote: They are redoing a long section of city street that I worked on in the early 80's, everything getting ripped out, including all the property corners, a 35 year time limit for all the monuments.
In California we have a statue that requires a project owner (e.g. a city) to include monument preservation in every project like that. They're required to identify all the monuments likely to be affected, have a licensed land surveyor tie them out and file Corner Records (or a Record of Survey), and upon project completion replace them with durable monuments.
Alas, though the statute has been on the books for decades, its observance is spotty. I've been after my home city for years, and their procedures are still kind of hit-and-miss in this regard. Some jurisdictions are good, others remain clueless or willfully ignore the statute. A lot of money spent by private landowners gets trashed when a local agency tears up a street and blows out the monuments without first spending the modest sum necessary to perpetuate those monument locations.
Jim Frame, post: 386419, member: 10 wrote: In California we have a statue that requires a project owner (e.g. a city) to include monument preservation in every project like that. They're required to identify all the monuments likely to be affected, have a licensed land surveyor tie them out and file Corner Records (or a Record of Survey), and upon project completion replace them with durable monuments.
Alas, though the statute has been on the books for decades, its observance is spotty. I've been after my home city for years, and their procedures are still kind of hit-and-miss in this regard. Some jurisdictions are good, others remain clueless or willfully ignore the statute. A lot of money spent by private landowners gets trashed when a local agency tears up a street and blows out the monuments without first spending the modest sum necessary to perpetuate those monument locations.
The city will usually budget to replace what was there, no filing required here for that.
I don't know if it's being handled for that reconstruction, I'm not involved, but the last one I worked on I replaced all the found monumentation. About 1/2 of it was undisturbed which was surprising since it was a full reconstruction.
Even without a statue it seems that there is some liability removing people's property corners.
If it's $1000 to do a property survey in the area and the construction takes it out then..................
Lead plug and tack.
2xcntr, post: 386122, member: 584 wrote: Yup it does add about 2 minutes per point.... but breaking a $125 bit after only 50 points ouch! Then you are screwed until they ship you another one. For another $125. Or maybe I got the price wrong? Anyway I would always spend more time picking out a good control point than actually setting one. For me and my clients a good location always would trump how fast we could set one.
As for chiseling cross cuts... even when done with a circular saw.. with todays tools available, why would you. I had a Ryobi gas hammer drill for many years before the electric ones came out. Still have it around here somewhere.
"As for chiseling cross cuts... even when done with a circular saw.. with todays tools available, why would you. "
Freeze/thaw has never affected any that I've made or found... We are trying Otags this year and will monitor them over the winter. I've seen freeze/that remove a MAG nail set flush on more than one occasion.
Jim,
You may have to explain to folks that you are at 7,000 feet - thereby making freeze/thaw a real thing in Arizona ...
Here is me in Flagstaff in January (2000)
KScott, post: 386404, member: 1455 wrote: ...
We also use them in rock and concrete for property corners instead of a chiseled cross which is not compliant with Colorado statutes regarding boundary markers.
True, but I think we are discussing control points aren't we?
Jim Frame, post: 386138, member: 10 wrote: A length of vinyl tubing works well, too (you supply the air).
Don't forget the safety glasses! Don't learn the hard way.
rfc, post: 386710, member: 8882 wrote: Don't forget the safety glasses! Don't learn the hard way.
I learned the hard way in 1979, when I got hit in the eye by a nail. Ever since I've been pretty religious about wearing glasses, googles and/or a face shield when striking, drilling, sawing or grinding.
John Hamilton, post: 386433, member: 640 wrote: Lead plug and tack.
I worked for Longfield Engineering in Reno in the early 70s. I was head chain and one quite large subdivision we worked on had front corners offset to the curb lines where we installed a lead and tack for the monument. No EDM... all points set with temp correction, tension handle, chained in distance using a 1/8 inch canyon tape. The holes for all points were star drilled. I developed a pretty good grip while working that project.
I remember lead and tack being the property corner standard around downtown Reno in those days.
I like the blue Phillips head tapcon screws. Take a 5/8" bit drill a 1/4" deep hole then run the 5/32" bit to depth of the screw and it makes a nicely countersunk control point.
Currently O-Tags (Lead, Tack and Tag system) is working with Alaska DOT. They also would like to have an alternative to setting "Control" points within concrete areas in the cold. The O-tags drill Tap does have the ability to adjust its drill pilot in making room for a magnetic or steel slug (if desired) behind a precut 1"x3/8" lead chaser.
Will keep you posted.
Teddy Ohana
P.L.S. (CA)
