Advice from the pros please....

A good surveyor will make sure the electrical improvements are not in conflict with other design features. A good surveyor will give you back of walk or top of curb grades associated with the pole locations so that they will be set at the appropriate vertical position, etc. Make sure you are comparing apples to apples with regards to the different proposals. Give the existing surveyor a chance to justify his proposal before hiring a second surveyor.

> to layout a few hundred light pole bases on a large jobsite.
>
> ..... (it's a big dirt-moving and grading job).

Those two things stand out to me. The others may be planning to come in , blow in a few hundred in a day or two, then come re-stake them for you at a premium after the scrapers take out a couple of hundred. The onsite guy can put them in as needed, avoiding costly re-stakes.

I personally would not worry about any electrical conflicts, not part of the job in my book unless my company did the plans. I would give the back of curb or some other elevation so they are installed at the correct elevation.

Its important that the others surveyors work like up with new guys work, but without seeing the plans and knowing the coordinate system used, I don't know what it would take to make that happen. I wouldn't use the others surveyors base but use my own.

Like many others around here, I've been on both sides of multiple surveyors on staking things on the same site. Typically, it's not a good idea. Unless of course they both (or all of them) are willing to share files and all the data so that they are all on the same page. That is the critical component.

The finger pointing that comes later is never good. Odds are good that there will be some sort of discrepancy somewhere, whether minor or major. Then they all scramble to CYA.

A question that comes to mind for me, without additional knowledge of the particulars of the site and scope, is why can't the guy with the machine grading file just provide some key points and the associated elevations at those points? And how critical are the locations of these light poles? Likely that most of the data has already been figured out, or lots of people will be in world of hurt.

I'd be cautious of introducing other people (surveyors) into the mix, but if that's what the owner wants to do.... they are paying the bill, including any resultant delays. Somebody hired them in the first place for whatever reasons, so why not stick with the lady you brought to the dance.

edit: I agree with our resident professional construction surveyor - Mr Roadhand. Often the timing of the staking is just as important as getting it right - the first and only time. If it can be done. Make sure you are comparing the scope of each guy so it's apples and apples

what can go wrong here? Everything. My advice is to go with the onsite surveyor.
A) He is aware of any asbuilt changes, the others are likely not
B) He has a better understanding of the actual conditions
C) he can perform the work as needed and this will save you time.
D) ask him why he is so much more and discuss the details, you will find out what everyone elsee is missing.
E) Price is not the most important factor here.

> There's a chance that the onsite firm is just feeling like gouging me because they're already on site, but it could also be that the others who quoted the work are missing an important piece of the puzzle.

My personal feelings are gouging isn't the case, unless there is a history of mistrust between you and the onsite firm. I'm going to guess the onsite firm has a better grasp on the situation.

Here's a situation for you to ponder:

Let's say another firm lays out the lighting from the onsite surveyor's control. Let's say they wind up in the wrong place. Let's say everybody argues over what control is right and what control is wrong. Who is going to foot the bill to make it right and how much time could be lost in a finger pointing session?

My personal opinion: Stay with the fella who has already mobilized. Don't be guilty of penny wise and dollar foolish. What is a few bucks compared to the whole contract?

How many light poles need to be staked incorrectly to wipe out the 2/3rd savings?

> ....The other quotes are less than a third of what the onsite firm quoted ....
Others have given you good advice about why to hire the onsite firm. But a huge disparity on price like this can't be ignored. Something is up. Perhaps the onsite firm is telling you that they don't want the job.

> What questions should I ask the other firms to ensure that they can do the job?

Ask yourself this question: For your layout needs you have a choice of Fast, accurate, and cheap. You can not have all three but only two of them. Which two do you choose?

This is all great advice folks.

Thanks very much for the information and insight, and be careful out there!

Keep him honest. Get a quote from a couple of others, making sure you're comparing apples to apples. If the difference is still huge, he will change his tune.

> This is all great advice folks.
>
> Thanks very much for the information and insight, and be careful out there!

What no one has explicitly recommended (unless I missed it!) is to sit down with the onsite surveyor, tell him you have some other quotes, and ask him to explain the disparity. You don't need to disclose specifics, just let him know the magnitude of the difference. It needn't be a confrontational discussion, and if he has legitimate reasons for coming in high he'll be able to explain them succinctly. If he can't quickly sell you on the advantage of using his services, then you can thank him for his time and engage one of the other surveyors for the task.

Yea Jim, I was heading in that direction. In my simple mind I'm suspecting a very loose scope, and that is what needs to be defined. Some times a simple "one time staking for location and grade" will suffice, sometimes not practical. dunno

Then again, if going back to on-site guy and essentially saying "no", that will likely cost more in the long run. Not to mention delays in completion, and owners don't like that. Personally, I've been in that situation where I quoted what I thought 1) it would take me, and 2) what it was worth to the client. They say no, I walk. Never have sharpened my pencil though, especially on the back end.

Good point though.

I have created many models for machine control with the associated linework.

I have had a few ask for the light poles to be included in the linework for stakeout purposes. To add them I did not charge for the 2 minute task.

The actual staking out should be a minimal cost if they are already using GPS.

Maybe the other firm is offering better prices to get its foot in the door. If the site has a long life, it may be a way to get in.

:good: :good: :good:

1

Just because you can get a cheaper price for light base staking doesn't mean your going to get a better product. In fact, as many have pointed out, you will more than likely get much more headache dealing with a 'new' surveyor on the project.

Of all the staking we do, and we do a lot, light pole staking tends to have the most revisions. Engineers are always tweeking the adjacent concrete grades or making some underground change that requires them the design location to change. A lot can go wrong with light pole staking and if you get them in the wrong location they can be extremely spendy to fix.

Go with the onsite surveyor, he has the most project knowledge and that's what you need.

I like what Jim Frame said.

Can only add that it's not unheard of for contractors of any flavor to under bid a job in the hope of making a profit on the back end through change orders and additional work requests for which they can charge a premium.