Light pole bases can be tricky, sometimes nearest foot is fine, other times you really need them dead on.
Imagine a parking lot, gridded with poles, these things of course stick out of the ground and even if they are off an inch can just look awful, if you put them right on then it looks much better, they are like big sights sticking up.
Last layout job I did for a light pole grid the contractor wanted them to the nearest couple of hundreths and they look great, but I didn't use GPS for it, all of it was done with the robot and 10' offsets, took quite a bit of time.
I under bid that portion of the project and made it up other places. 😉
> > What questions should I ask the other firms to ensure that they can do the job?
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> Ask yourself this question: For your layout needs you have a choice of Fast, accurate, and cheap. You can not have all three but only two of them. Which two do you choose?
I tell people the same thing, with one exception. They do get two of these choices, but they pick one and I pick the other. 😉
I have an entirely different perspective. I believe the land surveyor's role is to provide services that protects the engineer's design and the owner's interest which in turn protects the contractor in the instant example. In my opinion, the long view isn't in providing technical services i.e. GPS measurements, digital models, etc. these are commodities that today requires little knowledge in their use. Staking in and of itself, light poles in this instance, is reduced to a short term limited value item based on decreasing labor costs. We cannot use our license to hold the public captive to these services. In other words, there is no future in "staking" for licensed surveyors. However, being willing and able to read and understand plans and specifications (conflict checking), communicate effectively with owners, engineers, architects and a contractor has value and creates efficiencies that ultimately reduces construction schedule/costs and certainly, litigation. This is a professional service that experienced clients readily pay as a method of risk management. It is smart money. However, high costs does not necessary mean it has value-smart money knows this too.
In my experience there are three items most commonly built in the wrong location: catch basins, fire hydrants and light poles. Last year we witnessed a light pole placement error that costs a surveyor more than $100, 000-that is a lot of light poles. Personally, our services oftentimes cost a little more than most folks in the county-those that hire us know what they're paying for- expertise and risk management, not labor. The burden is on us to deliver-we accept this burden. This has resulted in being hired to write project specifications, supervise other land surveying contracts and being the "fix it" guys. Translated, that means more pay for less work (labor) with more liability. Sure, I readily admit, we do not get the one off low bid projects requiring us to cut every corner to maintain an existence. But, this professional services model allows us to have four licensed surveyors on a staff of 13 (each party chief is licensed) and we're actively looking to add another licensee. We do not have lightening in a bottle. We're constantly working on our model to provide value to a professional team-again, I firmly believe, there is no professional future in labor using technology applications. I submit for your consideration and welcome any feedback.
Although the world has no shortage of "it's not my job" people. In my experience, I find the people that get promoted and achieve their desired level of success are those that do not constrain themselves by declaring any task-above or below them-as being outside of their job description. In fact, I would go as far as to say the "it's not my job" crowd serve as an inconvenience to the leaders and team players. That is not to say there is no place for mindless drones idling counting their accrued vacation days on their pay stub every other week and marking off each weekday between weekends- some tasks require little more than a warm body (for which their suited). Thankfully these folks readily declare themselves at every turn -which I appreciate as a matter of efficiency- it's kind of a modern day dunce cap.
DWoolley
[sarcasm]I have done many machine control models and that surgery only should take about 10 minutes doc...yeah, its heart surgery but still all you have to do is throw that balloon up there and blowwww.[/sarcasm]
Truth hurts.
The trouble with your truth is that you have no idea what the scope is, you have no idea how much "hundreds of poles are" and you don't do stakeout but you can tell that the cost should be "minimal". It just shows what you think the value of surveying is. The only person your advice hurts is the OP, because he is led to believe that the lower bids have value. The real truth is that without the full scope and onsite knowledge you should not be commenting on the value at all.
I said something similar, there is likely a reason for the difference. The best thing to do is find out what it is and then you can judge which way to go.
Edit: (for which *they're suited).
The trouble with your truth is that you have no idea what the scope is, you have no idea how much "hundreds of poles are" and you don't do stakeout but you can tell that the cost should be "minimal". It just shows what you think the value of surveying is. The only person your advice hurts is the OP, because he is led to believe that the lower bids have value. The real truth is that without the full scope and onsite knowledge you should not be commenting on the value at all.
Hundreds of poles are hundreds of poles.
I have set poles both in the field (parking lots, runways, roadways, etc) and in the office and it is minimal work (if you know what you are doing). (The minimal cost would be for each pole multiplied by the number of poles plus worth so it could end up being costly).
I am giving the OP the truth so not to be gouged by construction surveyors laying out light poles.
DWoolley-
Nice to see you here on this forum. I always enjoy to reading your posts.
-Brian
Lite poles are different animals depending on location. If they are in a landscaped curb island they aren't quite as critical as needing to hit at the intersection of parking lot striping or knockouts on the top of a parking deck. I am staking some now that we are sleeving vertically in a retaining wall grid system six feet below grade that are 24"bases and land in a 30" beauty strip between the top of the wall and back of the curb. Liability there is much higher than the one that hits in the middle of the "hot dog" island. There are several reasons why one person is higher than the other. Maybe one guy opened the plans, counted the poles and put 40 bucks a piece on them and the onsite guy knows of some real liability issues and is weighing the risk... I'd say a conversation with the surveyor on site would be the route to start with.
And just because the site work crew has a base set up doesn't mean anyone who chooses can roll up and work off of it. There would need to be some cooridination between the two parties, and if one guy just undercut the base owner, I doubt there will be any agreement met without compensation....
> Hundreds of poles are hundreds of poles.
> I have set poles both in the field (parking lots, runways, roadways, etc) and in the office and it is minimal work (if you know what you are doing).
> I am giving the OP the truth so not to be gouged by construction surveyors laying out light poles.
200 light bases would be about the same amount of work as to stake 10,000' of whatever on 50' centers. It could be more considering that they are not going to be 50 apart or necessarily in a line.
If I were onsite $20 a pole would probably do it for me and I would stake them as they needed them. I cant fathom an outsider coming in and doing it for less, much less for 7 bucks apiece especially if there are multiple trips out to the site to do them. You either have a lowballer or a gouger. I tend to think its a lowballer since they want to borrow equipment and there really isnt any such thing as a gouger, if that is what he charges, that is what he charges.
Maybe the survey company/site crew has become a little too comfortable, that happens too. Hiring an outsider could help to awake if so is the case here.