Missing property corner survey pins?

If the pins are placed before construction of the roads and services in a typical subdivision (as they are in British Columbia) I'd expect - and have experienced - near total obliteration of the lot pins.  In Oregon, the lot pins are (usually) not placed until that phase of construction is near completion, so the survival rate is higher. But by the time the houses are built and the properties landscaped probably 50% or more have been lost nevertheless.

I don't set lot corners in a subdivision until I am doing the final survey after the lot has been graded.

Very common prior to all the development work being completed. My favorite is with new fences erected and the pins are laying horizontal on the ground with freshly cemented fence posts in their place. 

Posted by: @williwaw

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My favorite is with new fences erected and the pins are laying horizontal on the ground with freshly cemented fence posts in their place. 

🤣 🤪 😐 

It's a problem, we are waiting for grading, road and utilities to be finished. Of course, buildings and landscaping take out about 50%

Ok, so unless the surveyor isn't brought back to re-set all the pins when the subdivision project is complete , then it's a good possibility the new home/property owner won't even have pins?

Seems the pins would obviously need set at start 9f project obviously, then re-set at end...  and for final records for submitting.

Not that I do a lot of subdivision work, but once upon a time I worked for a larger engineering firm that did.  Common practice, in Oregon, was to set temporary corners (hubs & lath) for the contractors.  Upon completion of the mass grading the final back corners were set and the plat was recorded with a bond for post construction monumentation.  Oregon requires the plat to be recorded before the sale of any lot.  Then, when the road construction was complete we would go out and set front pins.  After that, new monuments, and the required record of survey, were on the owner/builder's dime.

I just can not see why house builders and the ilk are so willing to wipe the monuments out.  They should be required to pay for them to be reset.  After paying for that a couple of times, they might be a little more careful. 

Posted by: @timd1971

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Ok, so unless the surveyor isn't brought back to re-set all the pins when the subdivision project is complete , then it's a good possibility the new home/property owner won't even have pins?

Seems the pins would obviously need set at start 9f project obviously, then re-set at end...  and for final records for submitting.

The new home owner will have pins, just don't remove them when the new owner builds. But you can't replace them each time a house goes up for a project cost. I've got subdivisions from 30 years ago that aren't filled up yet. This isn't a surveyor issue. Once the pins are in at the end of the development's construction, my work is over. 

Thanks guys for your wonderful knowledge and wise advice.  Very much appreciated as always.

@williwaw All property owners know that wood will outlast steel!🤣🤣🤣🤣

@timd1971 

My first recorded map for a 20 lot subdivision around the corner from my home in So Cal required that I set final monuments within 90 days of completion of construction. The project stalled for a month or two, so, 90 days after grading was completed, I set the corner monuments.

A few months later, I noticed a fence contractor working at the site digging footings for wooden fence corners, while driving home. I stopped to take a peek, and entered into a friendly conversation with the husky, enthusiastic dude operating the auger as he dug post holes footings.

He was very willing to tell me that his company always used the iron pipe "stakes" as control for fence line that they were constructing and that they always dug them out, in the process. He assured me that they re-set them once to concrete for the footing was in place, "as close to the middle of the hole as possible.

As a newly licensed Land Surveyor, given the opportunity to serve and protect the public, I was blown away by my realization that not everyone in the world appreciated how accurately and precisely I had established those property corners. 

A life lesson that I have taken to heart for 50 years and running. 

JA, PLS, SoCal

It's true that the accuracy of your corners is now gone BUT having the pipes/pins shoved back into the wet concrete is actually a blessing in disguise. Now when/if the inspector does a rough check to see if the corners are set you are good. I have had a couple jobs where the fence guys destroyed the pins before inspection and the inspector would not sign the job off until I reset all the pins and that is a royal PITA with big arguments about who is going to pay etc.

It's common practice in my area to set street control right after the roads are poured.  Lot lines projected to the CL or curbs.  All PC's, PT's, CL @ CL etc.  Rear corners are set too.  The fronts are a lost cause until the final survey and the rears are checked at that time too.  A lot of times, the fronts are never set with all the utilities being right there.  The crosses set at the curb or CL meet minimum standards for the state of MO.  

Posted by: @timd1971

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Seems the pins would obviously need set at start 9f project obviously, then re-set at end...  and for final records for submitting.

There can be some stupidity in the process.  The city or county approving the plat sometimes wants the pins in the ground before they approve the plat.  Construction won't start until the plat is approved.  So you set them once to get the plat approved, they get wiped out during construction, and then someone is on the hook to pay for resetting the wiped out pins.  Developer already paid for it once and doesn't want to pay again, homebuilder doesn't want to pay, surveyor isn't going to do it for free, so... the home owner usually gets stuck paying for it later on.

If I were buying a new build I'd go around and look for the pins and if they were wiped out I'd ask for them to be reset before buying, but a non-surveyor might not know to do that.

I can't remember if it was a New Hampshire rule or one set by the town, but they required that the developer set the lot corners or verify their existence when each lot was sold for the first time. I still think this is one of the best solutions, though certainly not the cheapest, and it could get messy if the PLS who designed the subdivision could no longer be retained for the work.

Kansas had the rule that the perimeter corners of a subdivsion be bars/pipes set in concrete.  Theoretically, this would keep them present long enough to be able to set interior lot corners.

We use to set rears and mark a crows foot on curb years ago in the 90’s. We set a temp stake at the front wood. So they could set water meters etc. once the final came about it was pretty easy to set up on crows foot for line site rear and drop front in. Now we set rears here and fronts are usually set after grading or they disappear. 

I was out not long ago on a new subdivision that was all done by others. Went and was looking for fronts in a long stretch all the fronts were about 1.5’ down. They had filled in that area after road was put in. Hard to get quick surveys done when digging so much but better than settling a pin cushion for sure. I still like the crows foot idea. Here the road mons would not last it could be a while after last house is built before final asphalt is laid.