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looking for nightmare legals descriptions

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(@geonerd)
Posts: 196
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Topic starter
 

I am giving a short talk on legal descriptions and their placement on the ground and am looking for interesting legal descriptions to use in a discussion format. If the description was involved in a legal case, that would be perfect. I'm sure you guys have lots of examples;)
Teresa

 
Posted : November 18, 2016 9:02 am
dave-karoly
(@dave-karoly)
Posts: 12001
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there is one from Placer County that calls for a building that once was or may have been located there. I have the text but have always meant to get a copy from the County Recorder. It's on my bulletin board at work, I think it is pre-Civil War.

 
Posted : November 18, 2016 10:25 am
peter-lothian
(@peter-lothian)
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This one is not so much a nightmare, as it is bemusing. Pages 3-14 are particularly entertaining.

Attached files

64761-320.pdf (595 KB) 

 
Posted : November 18, 2016 10:27 am
(@gene-kooper)
Posts: 1320
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Teresa,

Here is a reduced resolution plat and the patent for the Patches lode, which is west of Central City. It was a "clean-up" lode intended to obtain title to any remaining gores in the area. Although the exterior boundary encloses 20.66 acres, the patent is for 0.461 acres. If I counted correctly there are 37 senior conflicting lodes. I'll leave it to others to decide where the gores are! BTW....the area computation section of the field notes weighs in at a mere 8-1/2 pages. 🙂

Here is a link to a 27 MB file containing the 300 dpi image of the plat and the 31 pages of the field notes. Check out the "Report" section to see which senior claim corners were found in 1928 and which senior lines are shown on the plat in their approved position.

https://app.box.com/s/f7oxlsu0gsazo3q53zdyk2c4m4f00zu6

Attached files

SER_Patent_1048976.PDF (1.2 MB) 

 
Posted : November 18, 2016 12:46 pm
brad-ott
(@brad-ott)
Posts: 6184
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Beginning on the South line of Jefferson Street in the City of Franklin, 48 feet West of the Northwest corner of the land heretofore conveyed to Thomas W. Woolen by William J. Mathes by deed recorded in Record Book 9, Page 74, of the records of Johnson County; thence South parallel with the West line of the strip of land this day conveyed to Horace Hieronymous 128 feet; thence West 60 feet to the alley; thence North along the East line of said alley 128 feet to the South line of Jefferson Street; thence East along said line of Jefferson Street 60 feet to the place of beginning.

 
Posted : November 18, 2016 1:45 pm

(@tom-adams)
Posts: 3453
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I've been looking around. Unfortunately, it seems like a lot of "nightmare" descriptions to retrace often look like perfectly good descriptions on the surface. I'll send you any I find that seem kind of ugly. I bet some of the surveyors in the original 13 colonies have some real brutes.

 
Posted : November 18, 2016 2:09 pm
(@gene-kooper)
Posts: 1320
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Tom,

An old party chief told me about a description with a distance of, "two smokes while riding a slow horse". Not sure which colonial state it was.

 
Posted : November 18, 2016 2:51 pm
loyal
(@loyal)
Posts: 3735
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Gene Kooper, post: 400252, member: 9850 wrote: Teresa,

Here is a reduced resolution plat and the patent for the Patches lode, which is west of Central City. It was a "clean-up" lode intended to obtain title to any remaining gores in the area. Although the exterior boundary encloses 20.66 acres, the patent is for 0.461 acres. If I counted correctly there are 37 senior conflicting lodes. I'll leave it to others to decide where the gores are! BTW....the area computation section of the field notes weighs in at a mere 8-1/2 pages. 🙂

Here is a link to a 27 MB file containing the 300 dpi image of the plat and the 31 pages of the field notes. Check out the "Report" section to see which senior claim corners were found in 1928 and which senior lines are shown on the plat in their approved position.

https://app.box.com/s/f7oxlsu0gsazo3q53zdyk2c4m4f00zu6

Hmmm...a "half acre survey," that should run about $200 bucks, right?

Well maybe in Singapore :smarty:

Loyal

 
Posted : November 18, 2016 3:17 pm
 ddsm
(@ddsm)
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Descriptions in Deeds
The countryman, who, by good fortune, political shrewdness or chicanery, has been exalted above the common people by an election to Justice of the Peace, and therefore is entitled to be dubbed ‰Ûω۪Squire,‰Û and authorized to sit in judgment on his neighbors, tie hymenial knots, etc., is looked upon by his fellow citizens as a truly great man; one whose opinion on all matters, from the building of a rail fence to the revision of the American tariff, is unimpeachable. He is called upon to make out a deed for a piece of property one of his neighbors has sold another; and the ‰Ûω۪Squire,‰Û with a full realization of his eminent fitness and ability to properly prepare papers of this and all other kinds, goes to work, and presently evolves a description something like this:
‰ÛÏBeginning on the bank of the creek, thence following the creek to the brush fence that burned up last spring, thence to the old black stump, about 50 yards, thence running by the fox den to the northwest corner of Jones‰Ûª tater patch, and then along the fence to near where Smith‰Ûªs portable sawmill stood, then by the path leading to the foot log over the creek, and then to the place of beginning, and being the same ground used by Brown as a pasture lot.‰Û The ‰Ûω۪Squire‰Û knows perfectly well that this description is all right, for he has accurately described the whole boundary, as he can prove by every person acquainted with the premises. He hands the deed to the grantor, who is well satisfied; satisfied for two reasons: First, because he has the utmost confidence in the ‰ÛÏSquire‰Ûªs‰Û ability to draw a good deed, and the ‰Ûω۪Squire‰Û has assured him that it was all right; Second, he is satisfied because it only cost 50 cents, whereas it would have cost two or three dollars to have had a survey and correct description. The grantee is also satisfied, and for the same reason as the grantor‰Ûªs first; and he takes the deed to the County Auditor and he sees nothing wrong. To all appearance it is perfect, and he makes the transfer. It is now taken to the Recorder, who observes it has all the legal requirements, such as consideration, wife‰Ûªs signature, etc.; and he collects his fee, and soon a copy of this magnificent document, this splendid product of the ‰ÛÏSquire‰Ûªs‰Û futile brain, has become a part of the county records. If the grantor and grantee had any misgivings about the document before, they are all removed now; and they are absolutely certain of its soundness. For had it been wrong, the Auditor or Recorder would have noticed the error, and pointed it out, but it has passed through without a single criticism, and there can be no doubt about its validity.
There is a class of persons, who, through suspicion of fraud or trickery, make it a rule to deed away property by precisely the same calls as were used in the deed to them. A case of this kind, with which we are pretty well acquainted, having had something to do with it, occurred right here at Columbus, in which the grantor declined to make a deed except with identically the same description as that contained in the deed to him. The result of this practice is easily seen; once right always right, or once wrong always wrong.
Our statutes should require, and make a part of each conveyance of real estate, a complete plat of the premises conveyed. This plat should show the connection of its lines with recorded lines; should give the course and distance of each of its boundaries where it is at all possible, and give all witnesses taken to corners.
R. S. Weitzell ‰ÛÒ Presented to the Ohio Society of Surveyors and Civil Engineers - 1885

 
Posted : November 18, 2016 3:22 pm
(@richard-germiller)
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They don't appear to be on-line this far back, but when I worked in Dutchess County, NY I came across one that read like the two farmers sat down and recited it. Parts of it have things like "then along the fence that goes between his land and my land to the ditch".

I did a quick search and it appears deeds of this age are not on-line, I came across it in the mid 80's, but don't remember how old it was at that time. Perhaps if you would like to see it Ken Salzmann can be a of assistance. I can give a little more information to particular location if needed.

 
Posted : November 18, 2016 4:59 pm

(@geonerd)
Posts: 196
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Topic starter
 

This is a great start. I am going to sit down tomorrow and start working on this. These give me some ideas as well, maybe create something from the various nightmares so the class can discuss the different aspects.
Keep um coming:-)

 
Posted : November 18, 2016 6:05 pm
(@geonerd)
Posts: 196
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Topic starter
 

Richard Germiller, post: 400289, member: 499 wrote: They don't appear to be on-line this far back, but when I worked in Dutchess County, NY I came across one that read like the two farmers sat down and recited it. Parts of it have things like "then along the fence that goes between his land and my land to the ditch".

I did a quick search and it appears deeds of this age are not on-line, I came across it in the mid 80's, but don't remember how old it was at that time. Perhaps if you would like to see it Ken Salzmann can be a of assistance. I can give a little more information to particular location if needed.

Thanks Richard. I'm not looking for ya to go out your way. I figured a bunch of people will have something handy and I only need 2-3. I think I will give an overall in the first 30-40 minutes and then take up the rest of the 90 minutes with case study.

 
Posted : November 18, 2016 6:06 pm
(@geonerd)
Posts: 196
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Topic starter
 

Peter Lothian - MA ME, post: 400226, member: 4512 wrote: This one is not so much a nightmare, as it is bemusing. Pages 3-14 are particularly entertaining.

Thanks Peter,
I am going to read this tomorrow. It looks like an interesting read.

 
Posted : November 18, 2016 6:09 pm
holy-cow
(@holy-cow)
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What can be equally entertaining are items in the deed involving personal property, growing crops and the like that state whether the buyer gets them or the seller retains them. Somewhere I saw one of these where the garden crops were mentioned and two or three items were to go to the seller because he would like them and the seller wouldn't eat them now that the spouse was deceased. Something like that.

A fairly common thing to let go with the house was the drapes, unless the owner had some great interest in taking them.

People are weird.

 
Posted : November 18, 2016 6:45 pm
 ppm
(@ppm)
Posts: 464
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"...Commencing at an iron pipe formerly marked by a white rock about 10 feet easterly from a large black stone..."

Attached.

Attached files

white and black rock.pdf (124.3 KB) 

 
Posted : November 18, 2016 7:13 pm

 ppm
(@ppm)
Posts: 464
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Not necessary a nightmare but very DUMB:

"Parcel 1: Parcel 2 of..."
"Parcel 2: Parcel 1 of..."

See page 7 on the attached.

Attached files

Parcel 1 is Parcel 2 and Parcel 2 is Parcel 1.pdf (512.5 KB) 

 
Posted : November 18, 2016 7:17 pm
(@bill-etzkorn)
Posts: 6
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Deed Descriptions I Have Seen But Could Do Without. I think Roy Minnick

 
Posted : November 18, 2016 7:27 pm
eddycreek
(@eddycreek)
Posts: 1033
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I've seen one in my county that called for a corner being "a colored boy standing by a hog wallow".

Surveyed one that called for "a black oak, now down". It was written in the late 1800's.

 
Posted : November 18, 2016 7:41 pm
Bruce Small
(@bruce-small)
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I think I can find one I've used in seminars that looks quite good until you realize it is so ambiguous it can't be deciphered.

 
Posted : November 18, 2016 8:46 pm
(@brian-gillooly)
Posts: 18
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Unfortunately, I come across ambiguous legals very often as I'm sure you all do as well. There are bunch I wish I could remember where they were in order to post here. The most problematic legals I come across, are usually ones that you cant read, even if you were to go down to the county and look at the original.

I'm lucky in my area, there are very few legals that refer to being bound to objects like trees, or fences that have not exited for 50 years.
For your class, I would recommend talking about referring to maps that are not recorded and available in public records that will be available to future surveyors many years from now. The one I attached isn't the greatest example, because I was able to eventually obtain a copy of the referenced map, but took a couple weeks. I also wasn't able to use any newer maps to look at stationing because it was way different. There are many that the referenced map can no longer be found. I saw one that was referenced to a map in a drawer in a specific engineer's desk...

For those of us who don't have weeks to try to find old reference maps, please consider other options when writing descriptions based upon maps that may not be easily available to the public years from now.

Attached files

2311215 EAS (1).pdf (204.4 KB) 

 
Posted : November 18, 2016 11:33 pm

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