When setting Bluetops for compacted subgrade, what is the limit you're willing to claw down to to give your client the tops they need?
I told these guys that at 0.6' they're not ready.?ÿ Alternative was they brought the blade by to gouge down so I didn't have to claw out 0.8' holes to get their grades marked.
What does everyone that's doing this approach these circumstances with for resolution?
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If its a small per percentage or isolated to an area they are a bit high end that is one thing. If it is the majority the. That is different. If I can remember many years ago i had established a good relationship with contractors and graders. I would move away from the area that was too high and they would grade it down a bit more. But if every hub has to 0.5 down then that is no fun lol. But a good motor grader operator can get that fixed fairly quickly. ?ÿ
Where is that ??dislike? button.
The last blue tops I set were in 1988. ?ÿI am pretty sure they were at least mostly above grade.
If they were that far off maybe just paint it on the ground or use a lath.
I staked a major road to a mine 9 times. All you can do is stake it, re-stake it, repeat till it's done. One reason I turn down construction among other reasons. Don't have any set depth where I'm setting rough grade instead of blue tops but .6' would get a crows foot on a lath with a -0.6'.?ÿ
They need to hire a grade checker. Anything over 0.2?? on average isn??t ready for blue tops.
Maybe they should stick to driveways.
What??s going to happen is they??ll hit half of them. Upright and pound them in. When the grade is screwed up they??ll blame you.
I haven't done blue tops in years but we would check the overall site, if any shots were +0.1' we would notify the client and they would "clean it up" before we set any blue tops.
Granted, if it was contained to a small area...we would work with them.
T. Nelson - SAM
Our typical spec is +/- 0.10.?ÿ We'll typically stake it even if it's more than that if it's 'easy pounding' as sometimes that is easier than having to come back.?ÿ We never work for the contractor so there are no concerns with that dynamic.
They need to hire a grade checker. Anything over 0.2?? on average isn??t ready for blue tops.
In other words, if they don't have a grade checker then you are their grade checker. An incredibly expensive one. This is where the managers on both sides are supposed to earn their money. The burn rate on a construction site might be such that they are willing to pay surveyor rates for a grade checker, but you gotta get paid!
As a field guy, my approach would be to paint a cut number on the gravel if there were a few such points and notify the grader operator. If the whole site was like that, or the grade op was not onsite, I'd talk to my manager and the site super to try to coordinate a return schedule before pulling off.?ÿ Don't get mad, just deal with the situation.?ÿ ?ÿ
The site super is going to be more concerned about you getting your work done on schedule than he is about the hours and fees you incur. Keep that in mind - you hear him complaining about time incurred and you think cost, when he is actually focused on schedule. Then you say "if you can get your grader to take this down 8inches I can finish my BTs in a couple hours.?ÿ If I have to dig these out by hand I won't be done until tomorrow afternoon." That will get his attention.?ÿ
That's exactly what I did.
Edit...I'm back from today's field.
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Mostly..
I pulled the client aside(govt special status contractor company with a former AF guy) who got and earful?ÿ from their sub the dirt working guy who said I was whining about having to dig holes.
He had called my supervisor and then I got a call from him almost attacking me on what was going on...fun times.
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I pulled up my sunglasses said "Look R, I'm not a whiny pu$$y because I don't want to dig my Bleu tops(used the words that he tossed to my boss), I wasn't sent here to dig 8in deep 2 foot diameter holes to do my job for subbase that isnt ready for my work. I'm here to help but I don't have time to waste digging this because I have other clients in the waiting for me and I'm not supposed to be here all day."
His reaction upon being awakened to me knowing what he had said behind my back and not to my face garnered?ÿ a willingness to help and direct his lazy subcontractor to cut my lines to a reasonable depth(nothing better than 0.150 save the last one at F+ 0.80...)
He then apparently sent an email the size of war and peace to my boss whom I debriefed with in the early hours to set things straight and make sure he trusts that I'm not screwing around and that I shouldn't have to wait for a subcontractor to do our work.?ÿ We'll see where it goes as there are two more sections of this lot to replace and reconstruct.
Sigh.
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Anything with a cut more than 0.12' gets spray painted. Anything with a fill more than 0.16' gets a stake with a hash mark and those variances should be listed in the contract. If the contractor raises a stink, tell him/her that you bill out at $xxx.xx an hour and blue topping out of scope gets charged at time and material rates above the contracted rate. They'll typically correct their deficiencies rapidly after that.?ÿ
OK, I've been surveying in NJ for 40 years and have have no clue what a blue top is, that's not a term used in NJ, can somebody take me to school please?
@chris-bouffard It is a wooden hub placed at the design grade of the bottom of asphalt typically, but sometimes used for bottom of road base.
@lurker I've never, ever, been asked to do that.?ÿ My usual practiceis to set hubs for EP on a 2' offset and on centerline, set lath with crows feet.?ÿ Not that I'm lazy or anything but I don't want my guys wasting the time to dig or pound down to finished or sub grade.
I do have a problem with many contractors herein New Jersey where the contractors expect us to hold their hand and teach them how to build their projects.?ÿ We used tohave to do far less staking back in the days when the Supers were sharp enough to rough things in on their own before they called us for layout.
I was in a different state and they called them redheads, I was surveying control for a large mapping job while that crew was staking a road and we were chatting in a surveyor's office (bar).
I suppose the hub was painted red, we usually have used a rooster tail in the hub.?ÿ
A Redhead, in Nebraska, was a 16d nail pushed through a folded piece of flagging; a blue top was a stake driven to a specific grade, usually with a stake chaser (whisker) driven into the top so the grade hop can find it easily...
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@chris-bouffard It is not wasted time when someone wants to pay you to do it. Perhaps they are wasting their money but you are not wasting your time.
Blue topping is the best way to get rid of a hangover. You get two crews out the next morning early the day after pay day. The. You tell them whoever gets done first gets free beer. ?ÿDon??t ask me how I know this. But when your hungover and you have two lenker rods running racing the crew next to you. Somehow at a certain point you are only thinking about that free beer the boss has promised. You can subtract so fast in your head and pound hubs like nobodies business. Oh if I tried that to day i would kill over. But my 18 and 19 year old self didn??t mind it a bit. Lol.?ÿ
Blue topping is the best way to get rid of a hangover. You get two crews out the next morning early the day after pay day.
Reported.