A little backstory....
Gave a client a proposal to laser scan the back of a building for a high end client. They wanted certain features located and scanned. Probably for the pretty picture.
Anyway, I gave them a proposal to laser scan it and deliver what they would have needed. I typically charge anywhere between 1000-2000 per day for the scanning operator, depending in large part on the accessibility, and then 1500 per day for the scanner. That is the sort of typical scenario. Plus you figure in time to register and so forth, you are probably looking at a half of a day in the office managing data and ensuring accuracy.
A competing surveying firm also gave a proposal......any guesses on how much they charged for everything?????
If you guessed 1500 then you would be correct!!! I am still in shock.....
It's like we gravitate to the rare only to marginalize everything we touch....It is ALMOST unbelievable.
Rant on.....
Don't worry Cousin Clark, you will eventually become as efficient as them! LOL Just kidding!
1. Laser pointer
2. Cellphone camera
3. Street view
4. Photomodler software
Easy peasy...(just foolin')
DDSM
When you say 1500 per day for the scanner are you hiring it? Maybe they own the scanner.
Free market at play in the hands of those that "play".
I use to do a lot of "electrocution" surveys for a utility company client's legal department. This involved producing exhibits, maps & photos for (possible) litigation when someone had an "unscheduled contact" with a primary electrical line. We generally used a reflectorless TS to get things done and I really did not enjoy them due to the morbid facts of the sites.
Several of us local survey companies have on-going contracts with the utility provider and a few years ago one in particular had recently purchased a scanner. I had spoken with the owner about "how's it working out" and he lamented that they had really only used it on some sub-station sites and very congested intersections.
Not too long after that "legal" gave me a call and had a electrocution survey they were needing. I mentioned to the attorney that another on-call firm had a laser scanner and he seemed excited. I gave him their name and number. He called me back a half hour later and asked me to "stand down".
I was elated. I haven't done a single one since.
Initial Cost of scanner ( include annual insurances and service contract divided by number field days expected use in one year.)
Number years anticipated recoup investment
Gives basic repayment daily rate
add investment percentage
Gives cost of just running instrument (assuming will attain number of field days)
Add LS charge out rates for operation in field and field reduction.
Scanners should be charged out by day rate.
I found a good example of charge rates for GPS was the M to F hiring rate from hiring GPS ( my supplier tossed in the weekend) so divided by 7.
Sadly many surveyors forget to add in the daily charge replacement figure when using the modern technology to their daily charge out rate .
RADU
Totalsurv, post: 376229, member: 8202 wrote: When you say 1500 per day for the scanner are you hiring it? Maybe they own the scanner.
I own my our C10 out-right and still have a $1000 daily charge rate on my sheet. Just because you own it does not mean it was free to acquire or that the ongoing maintenance is cheap.
It's all my fault- years ago I inadvertently inserted an 'R' in "FEE" and the entire industry's gone down the toilet since.
Totalsurv, post: 376229, member: 8202 wrote: When you say 1500 per day for the scanner are you hiring it? Maybe they own the scanner.
So if you own the scanner, paid for the additional software and took a lot of time to get trained in a related technology justifies going against the making a profit on what I would consider a niche market? Is this now going to be as used and massively adopted by surveyors as a robot? No is the answer to this and I believe that here in a very short little while Laser Scanning will be what it always has been....a niche market.
John Putnam, post: 376243, member: 1188 wrote: I own my our C10 out-right and still have a $1000 daily charge rate on my sheet. Just because you own it does not mean it was free to acquire or that the ongoing maintenance is cheap.
Most guys that do Laser Scanning full time are between 1500 and 2000 per day just for the scanner. But I could conceivably see scenarios where 1000 is acceptable depending on up front expense and usage.
But I can't justify buying a 100,000 technology and then turn around and use it for 1500 including the labor....that is just too low.
C.Tompkins - you may not have noticed that a very large number of surveyors have very little business sense...
My quotes start at my daily crew and office rates and increase from there. Travel, equipment and demand are all extra. Those that have difficulty understanding the quote, and only use the cheapest surveyor out there I don't want as a client. I am busy enough as it is and I am usually asked to pick up the job that they gave to the cheap guy, because he doesn't meet the schedule and isn't answering the phone. Price then goes up from original quote.
I have client that is a National brand restaurant. In the beginning they beat me up on my prices. It wasn't until I priced a job that was 4hrs away from my office that they stopped beating me up.
They didn't like the quote to design topo and shopped around. About two months since my quote I get a call begging me to do the job and have it turned around in a week. I was able to meet their needs and haven't heard a peep about my quotes since. Been working with them about 4 years now and expecting to continue the relationship for years to come.
C.Tompkins, post: 376253, member: 975 wrote: So if you own the scanner, paid for the additional software and took a lot of time to get trained in a related technology justifies going against the making a profit on what I would consider a niche market? Is this now going to be as used and massively adopted by surveyors as a robot? No is the answer to this and I believe that here in a very short little while Laser Scanning will be what it always has been....a niche market.
I was merely curious as to whether you had a cost of hire in your pricing. I am not defending the person who quoted so low so not sure why you are getting odd at me. I have lost bucket load of work to low ballers over the past while and it is very frustrating.
John Putnam, post: 376243, member: 1188 wrote: I own my our C10 out-right and still have a $1000 daily charge rate on my sheet. Just because you own it does not mean it was free to acquire or that the ongoing maintenance is cheap.
Again just asked a question about how he calculates his price for my own information.
Unfortunately, point clouds have become and will be even more so going forward a commodity. I am not defending this. Just stating the fact. Yes Surveyors should be better at control and extracting features. He who produces the commodity the cheapest wins the right to have less profit and more volume. Like Jr. Samples used cars "we lose a little money on every deal but make up for it with volume".
My mechanic explained how you need to charge for technology, whether you out it or rent it. When he bought his first diagnostic computer many years ago he would hook it up and scan the engine for error codes. With the given codes he would make the appropriate repair and the client was on their way. After several months with this technological marvel he realized his revenue had decreased somewhat. The reason was that he has replaced several billable hours a day with using the diagnostic computer. In addition to the lost revenue he was paying for the computer and updates (out of his now diminished revenues). That being said he decided to charge a flat rate of $90.00 (?) for connecting the diagnostic computer to a car. This charge compensated him for the expense of buying the computer, upgrades and eventual replacement of the computer. Why is it that (some) surveyor cannot understand this lesson. Charge for the technology you use on a project especially is you own it. This equipment requires you to pay initial purchase cost, maintenance, updates, insurance, and its eventual replacement with newer technology. Why should your client benefit from your business decision to purchase equipment that increases the accuracy and speed of your work? The liability is the same.
We have been stopped from charging for equipment by some clients, when they audit us those charges have to be eliminated, so a scanner on one of their jobs would have to be used without any fees.
You can always build an hourly crew rate for different work such as total station, GPS, or scanning or for different number of crew members.
[USER=7322]@Jethro[/USER]
That is an excellent example of how surveyors have been stupid for years. Far too many have left tremendous amounts of money on the table because they wouldn't pay themselves for their investments.
