First of all I apologize for posting anonymously but some of my employees visit this site and the nature of this question obviously wouldn’t be good for morale.
I have owned my business for 12 years and like everyone else it has been a roller coaster ride. However we have survived and we could easily continue to plug along. Currently I run a couple of 2 man crews and I go out with a robot and G.P.S. as much as possible as a third crew. I have not done any marketing in the past 10 years and the majority of my business is repeat clients or referrals. We mainly do boundary and ALTA surveys, very little construction staking.
I should be thankful for my good fortune, I make a good living and I see so many of my peers who are struggling, but I just get tired of the bull crap. Dealing with employees just wears me out, but I also feel an obligation to my employees.
My dilemma is if I go solo would my income be dramatically reduced? Would I be able to handle the amount of phone calls that I currently get, obviously I would not be able to handle the same work load? Could I keep my main clients? I am sure these are the fears of every surveyor that goes solo. I just never hear of someone in my situation that is currently in a business that grosses $700,000 + thinking about going out on their own.
Sorry for the rant. Any pros or cons to this idea. This has been on my mind for a couple of years now.
Thanks in advance.
Tough question.
I am solo, and I am a hustler. I am always marketing, and trying to stir up more work. It gets overwhelming, trust me I know, and I had a full time helper a few years ago. It was a headache in some respects, but I could not have done the work without the guy, and he was excellent help, and a good friend. I don't regret it at all.
My current workload allows me to subcontract some of my jobs to a buddy of mine that is just starting out. I wish I was in your situation, as I would like to be more of a manager in some respects, and let the other guys do the majority of the fieldwork. My knees have been giving me some issues this summer.
I would try to maybe concentrate on the office, and let your crews handle the fieldwork. Going solo is a tough call. It sucks at the end of a 8 hour day when it's 100 degrees outside, and you have to pack up everything yourself.
Trying to keep up with the office AND the fieldwork will make you an old man very quick, especially with the volume that you are generating. I don't generate nowhere that much volume, any I can barley keep up with my fieldwork and office work.
If your were close to the West Tennessee area, I would say we could colaborate and help each other out.
Good luck, I look forward to the responses.
Jimmy
Personally, if I were you, I wouldn't right now. Sounds like you feel like you're working for them (been there). If you're tired of the BS, why thin the heard down to just one?
Employees are a large responsibility. I've had as many eight, as few as two. Being an employer can become a mental millstone around your neck.
Go over your business model and focus on what is the most profitable. What good is grossing 700K if it costs 690K to keep running? If you have employees that are costing you money instead of making you money, send them packing. You wanna get ulcers just so some bone-head can have a job? Didn't think so.
My $0.02 worth is keep what makes you money and pitch the rest. Overhead is a hungry monster that eats profit everyday. Put it in a cage and on a diet. You'll survive.
$700,000 a year with 2.5 crews is pretty good...hats off to you.
I run a similar operation...4 crews plus me with GPS and an S6 robot to sprinkle in a few times a week. I like it this way, but can't see it being sustainable for the long haul. I'm 36 now, and eventually see myself going solo again. I am loyal to my crews though, and hopefully will keep this ship sailing for another decade or so. These guys are good to me, so I'd never leave them high and dry.
I assume I'll know when it's time to scale back...I'd imagine if it's time for you, you'll know it in your gut. Good Luck (FYI, these are good problems)
Pick your niche, pick your clients, raise your fees for everybody else. You'll soon be solo, work half as much, with a quarter of the headaches.
Being an anonymous poster, it tends to make this 16 yr soloist suspect a broker or someone just out fishing. The main question is 'why bother', considering you already have a successful business working for you. Don't fix it unless it's broke.....
good luck...
> First of all I apologize for posting anonymously but some of my employees visit this site and the nature of this question obviously wouldn’t be good for morale.
>
> I have owned my business for 12 years and like everyone else it has been a roller coaster ride. However we have survived and we could easily continue to plug along. Currently I run a couple of 2 man crews and I go out with a robot and G.P.S. as much as possible as a third crew. I have not done any marketing in the past 10 years and the majority of my business is repeat clients or referrals. We mainly do boundary and ALTA surveys, very little construction staking.
>
> I should be thankful for my good fortune, I make a good living and I see so many of my peers who are struggling, but I just get tired of the bull crap. Dealing with employees just wears me out, but I also feel an obligation to my employees.
>
> My dilemma is if I go solo would my income be dramatically reduced? Would I be able to handle the amount of phone calls that I currently get, obviously I would not be able to handle the same work load? Could I keep my main clients? I am sure these are the fears of every surveyor that goes solo. I just never hear of someone in my situation that is currently in a business that grosses $700,000 + thinking about going out on their own.
>
> Sorry for the rant. Any pros or cons to this idea. This has been on my mind for a couple of years now.
>
> Thanks in advance.
WOW - Dude - Really !!!
It's like I'm looking in the mirror reading your post
I'm in the very exact situation!!!
I too am about ready to pull the plug and let the remaining employees go. As near as I can tell, if gross revenue falls to 1/5 of what it is now, I'll be making more money than I am today. But I can not help but wonder how I will handle the logistics and dynamics of dealing with clients and phone calls like I have today.
I too have not done much 'marketing' these last couple of years and 85% of by clients are repeat. My typical day consists of dealing with the crews, giving instruction, answering the phone, writing proposals, research, calcs & drafting, book keeping and putting out fires. If all I had to do was a fraction of the work that presently goes through my office I can make a good profit (so it might seem) - at least the monthly obligations will be substantially less. And I would have more control over what projects and the fees charged.
Tough questions -- No easy answers
I'm going to wait however and get through the holidays.
I can not bear the thought of letting the last guys go this time of the year.
You're grossing $700k from repeat and referral clients. If you go solo, which clients will you say "no" to? It will be hard to say "no thanks", and you will end up with too much work and frustrated clients. Your days will be spent putting out fires and greasing squeaky wheels.
I agree with the above: If it's working, don't change it. Not now. Consider what you have a blessing, not a curse.
From what I see you are not charging enough.
Keep the people working and raise the prices.
Hire someone else to deal with some of the other stuff.
You might be doing too much on your own.
My first thought..
Ditto, Jimmy Cleveland. I'm solo and I wish I had a couple of crews, it sure sucks doing everything on your own.
First base is already covered....CLIENTS.
Second base already covered.....organizing and planning experience ....OFFICE,FIELD WORK SYSTEMS.
Third base..... ARE YOU A CREATURE OF COMPANY? then could be a problem. Or can you work on your own if latter then proceed to
Home base......Are you efficient in all aspects of the surveying from client request , through job preparation, field work, computations, plan preparation , invoicing if YES then proceed to SOLO surveyor and in one year you will say why did I not do this before.
If NO ,then you must learn to efficiently perform the weak spots as YOU MUST BE UP TO SPEED IN ALL ASPECTS before sailing solo. Warning you may not cope with the mundane parts! ( like having to pack up after a long day in the sun, you know how you would sneak to the front seat of the truck on the pretext of paper work while the assistant packed away the gear and all you want to do is have a cold beer!)
You will find that your thinking on job procedures will change as you "learn" solo efficiencies.
With your turnover you may choose to cull out the work that has high manual labor input and concentrate on cadastral, engineering detail surveys and set outs that may go for a day or so at a time, not permanent on call work contracts over long period as they will effected your time management efficiency which is critical for a good profitable operation. You also can afford to be discerning with retaining clients who provide the type of survey work you love or the money for jam survey work.....
Good luck and remember not all surveyors are cut out to be successful solo surveying operators.
RADU
(A Leica solo pioneer from 1999 ....and in own business since 1978)
If want to chat, email me so we can talk on skype.
If you go solo, things will change dramatically. Your MO will have to be completely different, and you will lose some of your clients. You will lose some because you don't want them, but you might lose some that you don't want to lose.
It is hard to find someone to come in and manage a small business, plus they add to operational cost, and if they are not good, they might hurt more than help. This is especially true if you are not real good at delegating.
I recommend taking a business seminar that deals with this sort of thing. There are issues that will affect you, and they require a good amount of thought. Your variable costs and fix costs will need to be evaluated. After a good professional review of your operation, you may find that the best thing to do is simply raise your rates, and let the market drive your business. It might get a lot more enjoyable making trips to the bank, and that might get reduce the anxiety.
There are professionals out there who can advise you, but generally your accountant is not the one to give the best advice, although he might have some useful input. I highly recommend seminar, and from there get an advisor who can evaluate you and your company. It is hard to downsize a company without top-notch planning, and that same amount of top-notch planning might reveal a way to improve what you have with otherwise small change.
If I knew I could bring home at the end of the year what I bring home right now I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'd even be willing to take a 20% reduction in pay just to not have to deal with the BS that goes on around here. I don't have aspirations of being rich, but I do have aspirations of being independent.
"Would I be able to handle the amount of phone calls that I currently get, obviously I would not be able to handle the same work load?"
no, you won't be able to handle the phones calls that come with managing $700/year.
That is my biggest headache, the constant interruptions from the phone! I am not one that can sit and let it ring, or screen calls effectively. I should be turning it off when I need concentration, but luckily my wife is frequent;y here and acts as receptionist.
Have you considered an employee ownership transition where you can be retained as consultant?
What part do you not want to do anymore? I think you will have the same amount of stress, but it will be from different directions if you go solo.
Not at all sure of what your situation is or where you live, but age, health, lifestyle and income all need to be considered when going solo. If your getting a good volume of calls your going to find it hard to do field work solo.
Raise the prices a little, cut some fat, maybe throw in a middle manager and enjoy your blessings for a while longer. Bank roll as much as you can, keep the business strong and sell it in 10 year plan.
To me it sounds like you're trying to do both, a solo operation, and run field crews as well.
If your gonna run field crews, hire enough people to do the work you don't have time for. That should allow you to concentrate on building/running the business.
You can't slave for two masters (According to a very wise man).
You'll burn out if you try.
Excellent reply. If you're gonna be a manager then be a manger and leave the surveying to the ones who do the surveying. Impossible to do both and if you can't let go and trust those who you've hired to do the job you no longer have time to do then you need to look for new employees (plenty out there right now) or go back to doing the surveying and let someone else do the managing. At some point you have to realize you're employees want more of this responsibility as much as you would like to give it to them. Some have a hard time not being micro-managers though and this is usually their biggest downfall. Thins may not always get done how you would do them but you have to realize there are multiple ways of achieving the same end result. My $0.02.
My post assumes you have 1 or 2 licensed surveyors as employees. Did you hire them to be surveyors or party chiefs?
Thanks for all of the input.
Paden Cash hit the nail on the head, most of the time I do feel like I am working so my guys can continue to have a job. One thing that I did not mention was back in the hay day I was a lot bigger. We ran 6-8 crews and I did have other Licensed Surveyors in the office working for me, I even had a small engineering department. The slump in the economy took care of that. We had to downsize to what I have now. Which wasn’t necessarily a bad thing, back then it felt like all I did was sign pay checks; however the money was good. I do realize that those days are gone.
I do feel like I am burning the candle at both ends. I am 40 years old and in good health and I feel that I can complete most of the jobs as fast or faster then my crews. Probably because I can make the decision in the field instead of them having to bring everything back to the office.
I constantly read of all the success stories of guys that go solo. Bruce Small’s post always get me excited, they make me think man I could really make a good living with less stress. But then I think to myself “what is their definition of success, how much money could I really make going at it alone?” Of course I am not all about the money but I do have obligation and people that I have to take care of (wife, kids, elderly parents).
Thanks guys, I really do appreciate all of the feed back.
Raise your rates then everything else will take care of itself. Stop being an instrument man and be a RPLS. About this time every year people get tired of feeding the monster but a two crew operation ran properly will give you tons more freedom that trying to go solo.
What RADU said, plus, why do you assume your takehome will be less? If you get rid of your payroll plus the cost of running an office, you might be ahead. But, read what RADU said very carefully. Going solo isn't for everyone. I count it as one of my major blessings, but opinions vary.
Several years ago I had a draftsman and a helper. One day
both didn't show up, I told them that I did not need them.
I had several construction layout jobs for past clients.
My rates for a one-man field crew (no GPS or robot) were
raised from $40 per hour to $100 per hour. After the first
bill, a construction superintendent asked me about the rate
change and where are the other two crew members. I told him
I got tired of running a taxi and payroll service. He kept
sending me his company's business.
