P.O.B.

Just curious, how do you know where your parcel is if it is not tied to anything else?

Lurker, the legal description is SW1/4 NW1/4 section 14 Township 2 Range 3 West or some other such PLSS description or it could be a lot, block, plat thing. 

Posted by: @philcat4232

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If you are preparing an ALTA/NSPS Land Title Survey and your subject parcel does not have a P.O.B. in the legal description ........

There are some valid forms of legal description that don't have a literal POB, such as PLSS aliquot parts and those that reference a lot in a recorded plat. But if the supplied legal description is defective I would contact the title company that produced the title report and associated legal and insist that they fix it.

Posted by: @lurker

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Just curious, how do you know where your parcel is if it is not tied to anything else?

 I ask myself that on most of my surveys (colonial state).  "Starting at an oak tree by the road" or some such nonsense is the norm.

Posted by: @tom-bushelman

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"Starting at an oak tree by the road" or some such nonsense is the norm.

In 1889 everyone knew that oak tree.

Yes, I would label it as every metes and bounds description has a POB, your description just didn't provide the redundant label. Before writing a new description with the POB explicitly spelled out, I would consider 6.B(ii) "Except in the case of an original survey, preparation of a new description should be avoided unless deemed necessary or appropriate by the surveyor and insurer."

When performing an ALTA, the PLS is not an island. A portion of your job is to work with the insurer and design your map with details and references that will help them complete their tasks and help all parties assess risk. Reach out to the insurer and ask them for guidance and save your emails in your job folder. Consider adding a note that the monument you labeled as POB is coincident with the original description's starting point. If the ALTA parcel is a lot in a subdivision or similar, just note (after emailing the insurer) why you didn't label a POB.

OOh OOH OOH, my head hurts already.  You are working with lots 168 thru 175 in a 200 year old plat of the NW4 of the SE4 of Section 26 where there are blocks but they are not numbered or identifed in any faschion.  All streets are 60 feet wide and all numbers add up to 1320 feet.  Your client insists you write a metes and bounds description instead of providing lot numbers for the official description.

@holy-cow I can not count the number of commercial ALTA clients that insist I create a metes and bounds description for platted property.  I gave up trying to explain why that is a bad idea.  I have a standard note for those cases that states the metes and bounds are for informational purposes only.

@john-putnam A standard note of that sort sounds like a good idea.

I remember getting requests for M & B descriptions of platted parcels or aliquot parts when I was in full-time practice. Seems to me they mostly came from lenders. Title company staff had more sense.

I used to provide descriptions with controlling calls for the lines and corners of the platted parcel or aliquot part, as the case might be--

"Beginning at the southwest corner of Lot 13, Block 1, Coreopsis Center Addition, according to the map or plat thereof of record in the office of the Register of Deeds in Podunk County; thence northerly along the westerly line of said Lot 13 a distance of 100 feet to the northwest corner thereof; thence easterly along the northerly line of said Lot 13 a distance of 250 feet to the northeast corner thereof...[etc.]"

Perhaps the requests for these descriptions originated with individuals who were trying to justify their salary or fee. I don't suppose any of them got recorded.

@rplumb314 I'm sure the metes and bounds were being required by the lenders.  As for the descriptions themselves, I always called out the lot lines as controlling.  In the end it was not a problem, I just billed them more.

Posted by: @john-putnam

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@holy-cow I can not count the number of commercial ALTA clients that insist I create a metes and bounds description for platted property.  I gave up trying to explain why that is a bad idea.  I have a standard note for those cases that states the metes and bounds are for informational purposes only.

You could go OK fine and then charge them $1000 to copy/paste the bearings and distances from the plat. 😏 

Wow, I just addressed the same question with regard to local reviews of subdivision maps in another thread.

No, I wouldn't make up a non-existent POB just to create a label. I won't place an untruth on my map to satisfy an uninformed reviewer.

If a reviewing party were to make an issue of it, I would add a note something like: "Due to the manner of description in the title record, there is no point of beginning."

Posted by: @philcat4232

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If you are preparing an ALTA/NSPS Land Title Survey and your subject parcel does not have a P.O.B. in the legal description, would you put one on the survey anyway, to satisfy section 6 B iii?

Nope.

That instructions are clear (if applicable).  If its not applicable it's not going on my map or data. 

Posted by: @wa-id-surveyor

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.... if applicable.

Let's eat grandma..... or ...... Let's eat, grandma. Little details can be so important.