I've noticed in the last few years that some of the younger surveyors reverse some of their bearings so that they aren't all going in the same direction. Some are clockwise and others counterclockwise. I cringe to think how bad I would have been chewed out. I was taught clockwise preferably but counterclockwise was ok so long as they all go the same way without flipping quadrants. Of course, I learned on a board and it took a while to comp a closure without a computer. What are the young surveyors being taught now?
Me. "What's the difference?"
T.C. Carroll "It's the difference between right and wrong!"
Bearings are the one exception to the general rule for me. I like them to go clockwise so when you come to a corner on the map and start down the next line the bearing is there first and the distance at the end of the line
I default to clockwise, but so many of the maps I draw have multiple parcels with common lines, so making them all clockwise isn't possible.
I also start clockwise around the main lot and then clockwise around the boundary perimeter. After that each line is whatever direction I happen to inverse it. I am not the Acad guy making the final map and he makes all the bearings either NE or NW. The county mapcheckers never complain.
I call this one of the sins of the CAD programs, in that the newer drafters haven't been taught about making the outer bearing continuous, combined with if you just pick the line for dimensioning, the default is the direction in which the line was drawn and the drafter is not attentive enough to realize it need to be reversed.
I was never a drafter. I tried drawing with ink pens and did more carving that drafting. LOL
What I did learn was more artistic in nature, where things should be to balance the plat, scale, white space, font sizing, etc.
i see so many products that well just have no clarity anymore.
I pick the POB carefully, and go in the direction that makes it easiest to draw for example, coming at a curve from the tangent end (for example a roadway curve then going back into the property).
I do not care nearly so much as to clockwise or counter-clockwise so long as each next boundary line is described correctly. That is, either clockwise all the way around the boundary or counter-clockwise around the entire boundary. All going NE or NW, for example, is an outrage and a bastardization of what the description is telling anyone reading it. As for lines that are used more than once, I will label it twice, once for the description that is running clockwise and the adjacent description is running counter-clockwise unless there is no room to insert the label twice. That is poor drafting in the first place. So, plan ahead, the way we hand-drafters had to do to avoid starting from scratch more than once.
Another thing that makes surveyors look nuttier than a fruitcake, is understanding that parallel lines, by intent, should be shown as having the same bearing numbers with reversed directions when appropriate. Also, if we are told to create a tract so many feet by so many feet---DO IT DAMNIT. Do not show 301.01 by 399.99 or some other foolish shit just because that was your reading at the instant you said TAKE A READING. Do that ten times and you will have more than one answer for some reason. Your tripod may be influenced by thawing soils at one or more of the tips, for example. Provide the number desired and move on. The same holds true on the bearing that is to be a specific bearing. Don't tell us a thiry-foot boundary is two seconds different from what it is suppoded to be. PAY ATTENTION DAMNIT.
If you are writing your descriptions without making adjustments to ground, you are totally incorrect to start with. Unless you are hitting ground perfectly in that one in a million circumstance.
Ebeneezer out.
Amen to that - lines 2 or 3 seconds out of -//- boundaries that don't close, corrections on corner monumentation of a couple hundredths, areas carried out a ridiculous number of places, colors that don't copy or image, fonts so small you can not begin to read them, huge pieces of paper with vast empty areas that could have been used to list references and notes regarding boundary determination that do not seem to exist, lack of information to put survey on ground
Ghost of surveying future....Lord help us
Some 30 years ago the Portland area County Surveyors issued the following document. Subsequent County Surveyors have slightly modified it over the years, but it remains substantially as originally issued. Can we come up with some useful additional rules?
Drafting Standards
Clackamas, Multnomah and Washington Counties Updated 8/4/2021
TRI-COUNTY STANDARDS FOR SURVEYS AND PLAT MAPS
Clackamas, Multnomah and Washington Counties
The following standards for surveys and plats are intended to clarify and supplement ORS 92 and ORS 209.250. All additional information required by ORS 92, ORS 209.250, Oregon Administrative Rules, or local ordinances or regulations shall be included on all surveys and plats submitted for review or filing.
1. Survey/Plat size — 18 x 24 inch ONLY.
2. A minimum border of one-half (1/2) inch is required for surveys and one (1) inch for plats.
3. The boundary of the survey or plat shall be a SOLID BOLD line completely around the property being surveyed or platted. The dimensions (bearings & distances) associated with the perimeter line shall be bolded.
4. Standard engineering scales of 1 inch = 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 or 100 feet shall be used. 1 inch = 200 feet may be used with specific approval of the County Surveyor having jurisdiction. The choice of the scale, from the list above, is subject to the need to be able to clearly depict the information on the map.
5. The lettering on the map shall be of such size and type as to be clearly legible. The minimum size for upper case letters is 0.08 inches and 0.10 inches for lower case letters. Without approval of the County Surveyor, shading and cross hatching is not allowed. Font size and line weight must be compatible to the extent that it is clearly reproducible. Fine, narrow, line weights do not scan well. Light density line work is unacceptable; all elements of the drawing must be black, not grey.
6. Unless specifically pre-approved on an individual basis by the County Surveyor, surveys and plats submitted for filing will be of a permanent nature and plotted on polyester film ("Mylar”) with permanent ink that cannot smear or rub off, or white opaque white matte (polypropylene), some counties are now accepting acid free paper maps (Check with the County you are filing in). Mylar plats or surveys that appear to be produced by an electrostatic process using toner are unacceptable. If it has a raised surface (embossed feel) it will be rejected. If in doubt about the stability of the document we will err on the side of caution and reject anything that can be smeared or appears that it may transfer to other documents during storage.
7. Survey and Plat maps shall be drawn with the text in “Read Right" format. “Read Right” means that all information on the map reads from the top down and then from the left to right. While it is desirable to have the north arrow point to the top or to the left of the page, sometimes that is not possible. In those cases approval from the county surveyor shall be obtained and the text should maintain the “Read Right” orientation. A simplistic drawing is shown below for your use. If you have any questions regarding this policy, contact your specific County Surveyor before preparing the map.
8. All signatures on surveys and plats shall be “permanent black ink”.
9. A survey map shall be submitted for filing within 45 days of the setting of the first monument, not 45 days after completion of the survey. The filing of the survey is not contingent upon your receipt of payment for services.
10. Do not place “Post-it” or other sticky notes on Mylars. Mylars contaminated by adhesives or any other material will be rejected. Mylars that have been scratched or have had the matte damaged are subject to rejection. No rubber ink stamps are allowed on Mylar survey or plat maps. Notary crimp stamps are not allowed.
11. When a record of survey is submitted for a Property Line Adjustment (PLA), the recorded document number(s) describing the adjusted and/or consolidated boundary(s) shall be shown.
I've noticed in the last few years that some of the younger surveyors reverse some of their bearings so that they aren't all going in the same direction. Some are clockwise and others counterclockwise. I cringe to think how bad I would have been chewed out. I was taught clockwise preferably but counterclockwise was ok so long as they all go the same way without flipping quadrants. Of course, I learned on a board and it took a while to comp a closure without a computer. What are the young surveyors being taught now?
Wow, this really resonates with me! I’ve also noticed that a lot of newer surveyors seem more relaxed about the direction of their bearings. Back in the day, we were drilled to keep everything clockwise if possible, and consistency was key—flipping quadrants was basically a big no-no.
I think part of it might be the shift toward digital tools—computers handle closures and calculations so quickly that some of the old “manual discipline” habits aren’t emphasized as much. That said, I do wonder if the fundamentals of consistency and clarity are still being stressed in training. Even with software, getting the bearings to make sense on paper (or in CAD/BIM models) is super important.
I’d love to hear from others—what are instructors emphasizing now in survey programs? Are students still taught the old-school methods, or is it more “let the computer do it”?
That title sentence was funny--going backwards? a surveyor? can't be .... Then I noticed it's drafting. As long as it's labeled right, not a big for me. But aesthetically, I prefer clockwise. Frankly, coming from a geodetic background, I like azimuths rather than bearings, but that's just me 😉
If you don't rubber stsmp or crimp. How do you put your seal on it?
1. Survey/Plat size — 18 x 24 inch ONLY. -18 x 24 folds very conveniently to fit in a letter size file folder........why not 8.5x11x17x22x34x44?
why not 8.5x11x17x22x34x44?
At one time other sizes were common. State law specifies no size for Records of Survey, but does specify that subdivision plats must be on 18"x24". The County Surveyors are statutorily charged with retaining the survey records in perpetuity, and each of these counties has several tens of thousands of Records of Survey to keep. Standardizing on one size, the same as plats, facilitates uniformity in the storage cabinets.
If you don't rubber stamp or crimp. How do you put your seal on it?
Rubber stamp on mylar frequently makes a blob. Crimps on mylar plain don't work well. Instead you make up a facsimile of your stamp as a CAD block, and print it along with the rest of the drawing. In 28 years I've had to buy 3 ink pads, one for each time I use the rubber stamp.
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All angular directions shall be represented in degrees, minutes, and seconds. All angular directions shall be referenced to the meridian of the survey and be denoted starting with the letter N or S (for North or South), and the degrees, minutes, and seconds, followed by the letter E or W (for East or West). All bearings and distances around the perimeter of the property shall progress consistently in either a clockwise or counter-clockwise direction so as to form a closed shape. Azimuths, or interior (or exterior) angles may also be shown for reference but not in lieu of bearings and shall also be stated in degrees, minutes, and seconds;
From the Georgia "Plat Act" on the Secretary of State's website. |
I have a hard time labeling a line twice on multiple parcel maps. I came up with this note when that came up, which has kept the trivial comments away.
Bearings may not have been reversed to correspond with the direction of the recorded description. Note that a bearing of N 77º W is the same as S 77º E, but in the opposite direction, as are bearings that are N 77º E and S 77º W.
I was taught many of the items above back in my early years which was right at the transition to Cad. Nowadays we are the teacher. No one, or at least no one in 1000 miles of me, trains drafting any more and if the do it's not survey drafting. For me, i am the teacher. We setup several templates that provide to the new staff for guidance.
My biggest pet peeve is out of balance maps. Someone above mentioned this and I think it's very important. Nothing like cramming the whole drawing to the left side with big empty spaces on the right. Balance it, make it look good. IMO a cad drawing has considerably more artistic qualities than most realize. Sure, the data has to be correct but our drawings last forever and I want mine to look as good as possible.
It's a shame if drafting basics aren't taught anymore. They apply to CAD as much as they do to hand drafting.
Me. "What's the difference?"
T.C. Carroll "It's the difference between right and wrong!"
@matthewadams When my daughter was still at university, the lecturers made them dependant on software, they didn't teach manual calculations. Me being an engineer using my existing knowledge showed her cosine rules with vectors, so basically you convert all your bearings to anti clockwise, then convert to x-y vectors and add up the x and y components which gives you a vector from your traverse start to final station. At the time I did figure out the reason bearings are taken clockwise as there's a similar conversion to eastings and northings but I've since forgotten, but it's likely known to experienced hands.