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Definition of a Ledge

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fattiretom
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So we have a property where a corner has no physical description in our deed but a description of "a point on top of a ledge" in an adjoining deed. Our deed mis-closes bad, has no calls and is generally useless (same desc going back over 100 years). The math, other evidence and an old survey of the adjoining lot show the line as being at the top of the rock cliff. At the bottom of the cliff are two rods that match in distance of one of the line segments on the line but are not called for then it goes down another 20 feet or so.

All the evidence I can find puts the corner at the top. However my client is VERY angry about this and claims the the legal definition of a ledge is that it has a down cliff on one side and an up cliff at the back. So since the deeds call for a ledge it has to be at the bottom near the rods before it goes down another 20 feet or so creating his definition of a Ledge. I will have a good deed overlap (20+ feet here) if we hold this.

I have a lot of evidence going against him but has anyone ever come across how to define a ledge?

Tom


 
Posted : January 18, 2012 7:23 am
foggyidea
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Around here "ledge" can be an outcropping of exposed stone..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ledge (lj)
n.
1. A horizontal projection forming a narrow shelf on a wall.
2. A cut or projection forming a shelf on a cliff or rock wall.
3. An underwater ridge or rock shelf.
4. A level of rock-bearing ore; a vein.


 
Posted : January 18, 2012 7:27 am
RFB
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Wishy-Washy Definition of a Ledge

A ledge is (one of?) the only scenario(s?) where contours can legitimately cross.

:-/


 
Posted : January 18, 2012 7:32 am
DavidALee
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From "Definitions of Surveying and Associated Terms":

ledge-1 A ridge or reef, especially one under water near the shore. 2 In mining, mass of rock that constitutes a valuable mineral deposit; a lode or vein.


 
Posted : January 18, 2012 7:32 am
brad-ott
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Doesn't the deed say TOP of the ledge, not bottom?


 
Posted : January 18, 2012 9:53 am

ontarget
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Had kind of the same thing in 05, but at least it did call out the "base of the "ledge" to give some direction. Still a pain to try to determine though.


 
Posted : January 18, 2012 10:44 am
ddsm
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😉


 
Posted : January 18, 2012 10:53 am
loyal
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Dan

Nice picture!

I spent a week on a ledge like that one afternoon, but it was only about 4" wide.

🙂
Loyal


 
Posted : January 18, 2012 12:22 pm
holy-cow
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Dan

Such things are in very short supply around here. I've never found this term used in a boundary description.


 
Posted : January 18, 2012 6:35 pm
Perry Williams
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I was surprised when several years ago, I posted (on the old PoB Site)about Ledge and someone asked me what Ledge was.

Here in New England, Ledge = Bedrock.

Ledge is a very common term and I have seen it used in Deeds, and also in the Septic System Design Rules.

From the deed,it sounds like the corner is at the high point of the exposed bedrock.


 
Posted : January 19, 2012 6:07 am

Bob in NH
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Perry,
Does the link to your email work?
Bob in NH


 
Posted : January 19, 2012 6:23 am
Newtonsapple
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> I was surprised when several years ago, I posted (on the old PoB Site)about Ledge and someone asked me what Ledge was.
>
> Here in New England, Ledge = Bedrock.
>
> Ledge is a very common term and I have seen it used in Deeds, and also in the Septic System Design Rules.
>
> From the deed,it sounds like the corner is at the high point of the exposed bedrock.

Perry, your response ties into what I was going to say.

Locally here in Maine, there was a surveyor who described a vertical face of bedrock as a "bluff ledge."

So the definition is certainly regional.

To the OP; how is the term defined locally to you? Investigate that a bit, and you may find a definition that you can hang your hat on. Good luck.


 
Posted : January 19, 2012 7:14 am
eddycreek
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So we have a property where a corner has no physical description in our deed but a description of "a point on top of a ledge" in an adjoining deed

Depending on how it was originally surveyed, a possible clue might be from which direction that call comes from. If it's from the bottom, (surveyor was measuring along the lower line that hits the cliff) my guess would be it's on top of the lower ledge (because he had to climb up there to set it). If it comes from the top, (surveyor was on top measuring to that corner)I'd probably lean toward the very top.


 
Posted : January 19, 2012 7:49 am
Joe the Surveyor
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We have lotsa ledge here in New England....

Some of it needs to be blasted in order to remove it..some of it you can 'hammer' with an excavator..

Makes for nice and stable control points though...thats for sure..:-)


 
Posted : January 19, 2012 11:07 am
adamsurveyor
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al·lege [ ? léj ] 1.assert something without proof: to state or assert something, especially by accusing somebody of wrongdoing without offering proof of it or with a view to proving it later
2.affirm something: to state something positively
3.give something as reason: to put something forward as a reason or excuse for your actions or conduct
😉

Just joking, but "A ledge" is whatever the scrivener "alleges" it is. I think that if you can find something that can be construed as a ledge that matches some other element of the description, that could be enough to resolve the ambiguity in the description. Of course I am sure that is what you tried to do first.

I usually try to find the "bust" that makes the description misclose. I often find a NE instead of a NW. Sometimes I might spend too long on that "exercise" as I like puzzles and cryptograms, etc. It is fun to a certain extent....but i digress.


 
Posted : January 19, 2012 11:19 am

Perry Williams
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Bob

> Perry,
> Does the link to your email work?
> Bob in NH

It doesn't seem to work, but it's:

[email protected]


 
Posted : January 19, 2012 11:28 am