Like everything - yes, no & maybe
Do the townhouses have punch marks near each corner? Do any you have a number where you can get rebars for $0.50?
Like everything - yes, no & maybe
>1952 subdivision where 'scribed spruce' were set as the original corners
And I'll bet the plat doesn't even close mathematically - some bust of multiple feet, any non-rectangular lot that closes within a foot is a prize.
"Substantial" Monumentation
That 60d could have been somebody's backsight
If that monument is close enough to a highway, somebody will be chained to it to anchor themselves while winch attached to an 18 wheeler that has tipped over during a flat wind spike.
Locally, it would have already been tested by the log trucks and brush hogs that ramble along like those yellow monster ATVs not taking any care what they run over.
We don't leave flagging on any control points around here because paint and flagging makes a target of anything it is applied to.
All monuments need to be subgrade and monument boxes are just something that will get carried of to the scrap yard.
It takes a sturdy post that would ruin a wheel and tire or disrupt an oil pan to get the public's attention.
With all the log hogs dragging trees and Caterpillar clearing and brush hogs going around here, I am happy to find monuments in the vicinity of some locations.
Witness everything in sight.
😉
Let's be realistic
> I challenge anyone here to go back to bars set in normal ground conditions being more than 300 feet apart and get identical readings today as you did 20 years ago when you put them there.
Heck, the last month, I've measured points 300' apart multiple times, and gotten different readings just about every time, sometimes by as much as a tenth!
Operator error? Whassat?
"Substantial" Monumentation
with all of those earthquakes Oklahoma has been experiencing of late, one might wonder if much if any monuments are still where they were supposed to be. Maybe instead of punchmarks we might oughta start putting arrows depicting its vector?
Like everything - yes, no & maybe
Hell, I can't set any monument at all on a number of new projects - the building corners are on the property corners - or so close to them that a monument can't be set.
We are working on a 5-storey apartment building right now where none of the corners can be set - they all fall inside the building!!
wait a darn minnit....
:That's why the GPS sits in the truck when I'm laying out a subdivision."
AMEN!
We are staking a large building at the current time. The concrete contractor could not believe that we were using a total station to stake the column lines (which have a ±3/8" tolerance). Their foreman told my crew chief that they had never seen surveyors using total stations! He said that the guys they had worked with used GPS and were never closer than an inch. I am still at a loss for words!! What is the world coming to?!
Been there, seen that
Not really close to anything.
Like everything - yes, no & maybe
Yes, exactly Bill. It would be an exercise in forensics, which I actually enjoy. When I come up with the position for her corners, I'd then need to get out the garden trowel and scrape down to mineral soil and look for the original wood posts. Those are her corners and they don't ring when you pass a schonstedt over them. More than likely they are there, guy just has to know where to look and have some patience and they are not going to be exactly where I computed them. Three hundred bucks don't buy a whole lot of my patience and I don't survey for a hobbie.
Like everything - yes, no & maybe
Just checking my local Home Depot shows No. 4 rebar running about 30¢ per l.f.
If you cut it into quarter foot sections, that's a lot of corners for the money.
For just a little more, you can get No. 5 at 45¢ per l.f. and gives you more room for multiple dimples.
(Tongue planted firmly in cheek).
> I have noticed when trying to stakeout accurately with rebar and cap if this situation occurs:
>
> -Stake as accurately as possible
> -begin to drive rebar
> -soil is somewhat hard-packed
> -by the time the rebar is driven it's off .03-.05'
> -beat the rebar with the sledge
> -drive the ground beside it to move it
> -drive rocks down along side the rebar to finish "truing it up"
> -set the cap
>
> That the rebar will "walk" back to the original position. Maybe not all the way, but usually a measurable amount.
>
> Because of this I have started using blank caps, and setting a tack on the cap.
The first question I have is how long the rebars are. If you are setting a #4 or #5 rebar 30 in. long or longer, it's entirely possible that any attempt to adjust the top by the measures you describe won't last the next wet/dry cycle in some soil conditions. The lower part of the rod will be anchored and the top will just spring back to where it was.
What works the best in just about any cohesive soil is to use a template with a hole in it that is slightly larger than the nominal diameter of the rebar. For #5 bars, a 5/8 in. hole in a piece of scrap wood about 16 in. long works fine. You position the hole in the template where you want to set the bar and then just step on the template to hold it in place as you drill a pilot hole for the bar. It takes the worry out of being close.
I affix a 2 in. aluminum cap to the bar and punch the exact position of the corner marked by the monument on it. I suppose if a person were using RTK GPS, he would probably want to use a 3 in. or 4 in. cap and not punch it since that would be too ... definite. :>
wait a darn minnit....
I've heard the exact same story, the S6 is amazing for layout
wait a darn minnit....
The kid that cleans our office knows better than to use RTK for building stakeout. He has less than a week total field experience. ..
That sounds like a good idea, but I've seen too many punched aluminum caps lying in the dirt next to the re-bar. At that point, the punch means nothing, and the center of rod is located.
The top of the rebar needs to be properly prepared. The top should be beveled to accept the cap and the bottom should be pointed to better allow it to be driven. That way the rebar is driven straight and the cap seats to it.
In the soil around here to move a pin .03.05 the pin doesn't really bend if a pipe is used. I don't think in 20 years even if the cap is missing you'd notice the difference. .30/.50 you'd notice the difference but I shoot the top as is and then dig down to find where it's straight because I've set enough pins in my younger days where the i-man would say "away a tenth" and when I was done setting the pin, get the final shot and he'd say "your 2 tenths too far away" and I just wail on the pin till it was right. Those pins are bent and I'm sure there are still a few young crew members out there beating the hell out of pins because their i-men are morons and the surveyors haven't caught whats going on yet. That way I'm pretty sure I'm safe not to have to go back when things don't measure out to good because I thought I'd knew what was going on and get the wrong point on the pin. Two shots are quicker then a trip back.
If the pin is really bent over I don't bother getting a top shot and haven't had to got back yet.
> I have noticed when trying to stakeout accurately with rebar and cap if this situation occurs:
>
> -Stake as accurately as possible
> -begin to drive rebar
> -soil is somewhat hard-packed
> -by the time the rebar is driven it's off .03-.05'
> -beat the rebar with the sledge
> -drive the ground beside it to move it
> -drive rocks down along side the rebar to finish "truing it up"
> -set the cap
>
> That the rebar will "walk" back to the original position. Maybe not all the way, but usually a measurable amount.
>
> Because of this I have started using blank caps, and setting a tack on the cap.
>
>
>
> I do some boundary work in areas where the unimproved land is worth roughly $1,000 an acre. Other areas I work in the land may be worth more than $1,000,000 an acre. I have been thinking of taking this same approach when staking boundary corners to eliminate that last little bit of error on the expensive projects.
>
> The error ellipses are usually around 0.02'-0.05' on the corners, anyway, but why add more slop unintentionally? The tack on the cap method is also actually much faster.
>
> I usually set a couple of concrete monuments if the site allows, but it's not always feasible because of fences, curbs, etc.
>
> Does anyone else do this? I have heard ridiculous accounts (on here) of people finding that someone had "more accurately" placed a tack on their cap because they were a "better measurer". That's not what I'm referring to. If anything I am attempting to acknowledge that my measurements have error, and am looking for a quick/efficient way to control what error I can.
[sarcasm]Sounds to me like we need more, newer, and updated "Minimum Technical Standards" so that us "professionals" will know the absolutely best and most correct "method".[/sarcasm]
> The top of the rebar needs to be properly prepared. The top should be beveled to accept the cap and the bottom should be pointed to better allow it to be driven. That way the rebar is driven straight and the cap seats to it.
Alternately, if you use aluminum caps with plastic inserts similar to the the sort that Surv-Kap sells, all you have to do is:
- buy rebar that is nearly round (the two longitudinal ribs on either side of the bar don't stick out more than the transverse deformations do),
- saw cut the rebars to leave clean ends instead of the semi-mutilated ones that a shear produces, and
- use a drive cap when you pound the rod so that it doesn't mushroom, but has if anything, slightly rounded edges on the driven end.
I buy my rebar at the lumber yard and cut it myself, so I look at the bars when I buy them to make sure they are adequately round in cross-section. If for some reason you're stuck with bars with the projecting ribs along each side, yes, you'd need to grind them down and grind the end round.
Just buying decent bars, cutting them with a saw, and affixing aluminum caps with plastic inserts makes a durable mark. The oldest ones I've set were set 22 years ago and are still in very good shape, caps tight. Just last week, I was working on a project where the surveyor had set plastic caps that after 10 years had weathered off the rods with zero human interference.
"Substantial" Monumentation
> 
>
> Makes me wonder if Kent was the culprit.
No, and shame on you for dissing your fellow Okie professionals. You know perfectly well that standard practice for a CCR is to give swing ties from the corner. Well, most likely there wasn't a good ole power pole around for miles and so the professional set that nail to give a swing tie from. That way, if the bronze cap ends up on eBay or in a pawn shop, the next surveyor can replace it "right where it was". :>
