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A peer's website

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Bruce Small
(@bruce-small)
Posts: 1512
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Topic starter
 

Found this on a peer's website. Good to know what he thinks about most of us (his words):

Regrettably, most surveyors are mere technicians disguised as professionals, skilled in the art of finding problems but not solving or offering equitable solutions.

 
Posted : October 30, 2023 6:41 am
Wendell
(@wendell)
Posts: 5832
Admin
 

Wow, that's..... really sad.

 
Posted : October 30, 2023 7:23 am
(@chris-bouffard)
Posts: 1455
Member
 

Those words seem self lauding and unethical. A rather bold thing to say, at the very least!

 
Posted : October 30, 2023 7:44 am
bill93
(@bill93)
Posts: 9865
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He would get more agreement if he said "some surveyors" instead of "most surveyors", but that's still not something to put on his public web site. Talk yourself up, not others down.

 
Posted : October 30, 2023 11:02 am
Norman_Oklahoma
(@norman-oklahoma)
Posts: 7715
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The Code of Ethics of both PLSO (Oregon) and LSAW (Washington) includes passages about issuing public statements only in an objective manner, which the website in question seems to violate. While this code of ethics transgression may not be actionable by the state board, it certainly is not cool.

 
Posted : October 30, 2023 3:25 pm

party-chef
(@party-chef)
Posts: 977
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I appreciate that the courts may often seek an equitable solution in many affairs but am genuinely interested in hearing what others have to say about the role of a surveyor in putting forward "equitable" solutions.

I would think that putting forward a legally defensible and sound solution would be the first priority, not to say that I do not see a role for the LS to do some problem solving along the lines of boundary line adjustments, not upsetting the apple cart etc.

I do not like this newfangled reply window, can't read what I am replying to while writing it out.

 
Posted : October 30, 2023 7:37 pm
dgm-pls
(@dgm-pls)
Posts: 274
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I agree. I have seen a few clear cut boundary calls ruined by a judge that only wanted to split the difference on the issue instead of finding the correct calls to hold. If money were no object these cases could go up the chain for appeal but often get left at the bad decision. FWIW, the person who has that text on their website should at least be reported to the local board with an ethics complaint.

 
Posted : October 30, 2023 11:26 pm
(@bstrand)
Posts: 2352
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I'd be curious to see a list of all of the surveyors this person has met. I'm sure this person wouldn't want to come across as, you know, a jackass for making such claims without actual evidence.

 
Posted : October 30, 2023 11:56 pm
rover83
(@rover83)
Posts: 2346
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I appreciate that the courts may often seek an equitable solution in many affairs but am genuinely interested in hearing what others have to say about the role of a surveyor in putting forward “equitable” solutions.

Dunno what the surveyor referenced in the OP really means, but there is undoubtedly a non-trivial number of surveyors that "stake the deed lines" and then bug out, ignoring all other evidence, the bulk of which may point to a more equitable solution.

They are usually the same ones that turn themselves inside out to avoid having a conversation with clients when they really should - when there are discrepancies among the evidence that require more than filing a record of survey with a regurgitated calculated boundary.

From a very good article on the subject:

...surveyors often neglect to recognize that when considered in the latter manner, this evidence can provide proper guidance when “trying” to resolve a particularly intractable boundary property. Rather, they will harken back to their comfort with mathematics and concoct a solution that - relative to the long-standing lines of possession is entirely irrational - but provides a clear means by which they can justify their opinion: Math!

 
Posted : October 31, 2023 1:42 am
(@lurker)
Posts: 953
Member
 

You can read it for yourself here.

https://plsssurveying.com/vetting-the-surveyor/

 
Posted : October 31, 2023 1:49 am

Bruce Small
(@bruce-small)
Posts: 1512
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Topic starter
 

The peer in question contacted me beause he found my tagged rebars from a "recent" survey and wanted to know why I had ignored the original monuments. I asked if the pins were painted red and he said they were not painted, so early this morning I drove all the way across town to see for myself. They are my tags, on rebars painted red, which means from the 1980s when I worked for Cella Barr Associates. That's about as far from "recent" as you can get. I told him we sold CBA in 1999 to Stantec and he would have to ask Stantec for the records.

I didn't waste my time telling him that you really have to know the history of surveying in this area, rebars painted red invariably means CBA, and given the time frame my pins are probably the originals, not the later untagged pins he found adjacent. I also didn't bother to tell him that the Stantec surveyor sent all the records to the dump in 2000 so they are gone forever.

 
Posted : October 31, 2023 2:56 am
(@steinhoff)
Posts: 142
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So if I'm reading between the lines... he says most surveyors "find problems", while he fabricates problems. Big improvement.

 
Posted : October 31, 2023 3:33 am
rover83
(@rover83)
Posts: 2346
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you really have to know the history of surveying in this area

Amen. I got licensed about eight months after moving to my current region, and I think it was about 1.5-2 years before I really felt comfortable stamping and signing records of survey. I already had 16 years of experience across four states, but there are critical things that one must know about their local area before they can really be confident in their boundary analysis...

.....it's also why I have an inherent mistrust of surveyors licensed in a dozen states. I don't see how someone could reliably keep up with more than a few states at any given time, especially considering that within any one state there are distinct conventions and regional differences in how surveys were performed over the years. There might be a few who can keep up, but most of the ones that I have met were basically "collectors" of licenses. (Plus I really don't need to pay all those licensure upkeep fees or navigate all those CEU requirements. Ouch.)

 
Posted : October 31, 2023 4:53 am
rover83
(@rover83)
Posts: 2346
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I mean....it's an improvement for him. He can now pontificate and bloviate at his client even more about how he's The One True Surveyor™, and feel justified in his characterization of the rest of us.

Personally, I like finding problems rather than missing them, so I can solve them if at all possible.

 
Posted : October 31, 2023 4:56 am
(@steinhoff)
Posts: 142
Member
 

My brother in processing: the client just wanted you to stake the line so they can put a fence in...

 
Posted : October 31, 2023 5:23 am

holy-cow
(@holy-cow)
Posts: 25369
Supporter
 

A high school English teacher introduced us to a bit of philosophy one day with the challenge: Who am I?

Her point was that we are what others know of us. That pretty much holds true with surveying clients' views of us. They don't know precisely what we do, how we do it and whether it is complex or simple. Thus, we are the ones who must project our image positively so they know more about us.

 
Posted : November 1, 2023 2:35 am
holy-cow
(@holy-cow)
Posts: 25369
Supporter
 

Wow!!! We are at rocket speed today. Making an edit took no time at all.

Congratulations, Wendell.

@Wendell

 
Posted : November 1, 2023 2:36 am
(@lurker)
Posts: 953
Member
 

There are a lot of professional survey services that can be performed in numerous states requiring a license that don't involve boundary expertise in that state. Being licensed in many states should not be a cause for suspicion of competency.

 
Posted : November 1, 2023 3:09 am
holy-cow
(@holy-cow)
Posts: 25369
Supporter
 

That is true. It is when they apply "one size fits all" practices to boundary surveying, that the shoe fits.

 
Posted : November 1, 2023 3:28 am
jo-teague
(@jo-teague)
Posts: 52
Member
 

El Peer is famous for notes on his Records of Survey such as:

"Surveyor ______ continued his aberrant practice of..."

"Surveyor ________'s actions are adverse and repugnant to property boundary doctrines..."

Unprofessional is an understatement.

 
Posted : November 3, 2023 1:26 am

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