Today marks the anniversary of my first day surveying. 43 years ago today, Dougie started his surveying career.
I didn't know it, at the time, but I had started with one of the 2 most reputable surveying/engineering firms in the greater Metropolitan Omaha area. We had 7, 3-man crews and 1 chief of parties. We did Plot Plans (loan surveys), Survey Certificates (boundary surveys), staked houses and other construction projects, plats, and big topo's and route surveys.?ÿ
Like I said; we were one of the two best companies in Omaha. We didn't set corners for plot plans, but we knew if there was a problem, and we let the client know; what it would take to verify and resolve any issues. In the late 70's they charged $65 for most of them and a 3-man crew would average about 45 minutes each, we rarely ran into any problems. Survey Certificates were boundaries; we found or set all the corners and verified they were in harmony with the neighborhood. Most residential lots were in platted subdivisions, all the corners were set with iron. We charged $100 an hour for the first hour and $65 an hour after that; plus expenses; stakes and mileage. Most of the time, a 3-man crew would spend about an hour, each. The best day I ever had, as a party chief, was 10 in one day. I only had to set 2 corners that day, all the others were found and accepted in place. The drafters in the office were the best of the best. Most all the Plot Plans were on 8 1/2 x 11 and drafted in about 20 minutes; reviewed by the chief of parties and delivered. The Survey Certificates were usually on legal size; drafted in the same amount of time, reviewed, recorded and delivered to the client.
A typical day started at 7:15; you got a stack of 3"x 5" cards, from the chief of parties, with the client, address, legal description and type of work or special instructions. He searched the in house records for any work we had done in the area and if he felt the job needed it, he went to the county surveyors office and researched the area. Most of the time, you gave those cards to your I-man and he pulled the plats from the file cabinet. The chain-man made sure the truck was full of supplies and you were out the door by 7:30; stopped at the local convenience store for coffee and snacks, and were at the first job by 8.
With 7 crews, you'd think it would be pretty hectic, but it wasn't. Everyone got along great; there was a little friendly competition, among the crews and we all got a lot of work done. They had just purchased an HP3800; other that, the only other thing that used a battery was the Suburban. Everything was done by hand, with manual equipment. A couple of the crews would fight over who was going the get the EDM that day, but for the most part, every distance was chained. There were 3 ways the measure a distance:
- On line
- On an offset
- Or Triangulate (Traverse)
In that order, period.?ÿ
This was in a different time, in a different place, but things are A LOT different here and now. They don't do loan surveys here. Today I am a Solo Surveyor with GPS and a Robot, doing mostly residential work. On a Record of Survey I spend at least an hour researching a typical lot (usually more). 50% are in a Short Plat (4 lots or less) done in the 70's and 80's, and are hit and miss on...Integrity? (not sure if that's a good word to use here) plus looking at all the adjoining properties can take a lot of time, even though it's on line. Most of the time I make 2 trips; I find all the control I can get with my GPS and set up control where I need it. The return trip finds or sets the rest of the points needed to finish the job. I spend a minimum 1/2 day drafting; from calculating the boundary to adding all the pertinent information to the 18"x 24" drawing, having it plotted and taking it down to the auditors office and paying them $183 to record. I spend a minimum of 2 days on most of the surveys I do.
So back to the question in the Topic Title; was I doing it wrong then? Or am I doing it wrong now?
Thank you for reading; I hope everyone enjoy's celebrating their anniversaries as much as I do!
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Douglas Casement, PLS
Sounds pretty familiar there Dougie.?ÿ I think a lot of us came up the ranks in a similar fashion.
What I'm jealous of is your ability to remember the date of your first day.?ÿ Mine is lost to the ravages of time.?ÿ My first "full time" gig was at the firm that employed my father.?ÿ It was fall of '68.?ÿ Past that I'd be hard pressed to remember any kind of date.
And the way we go about things now is definitely light years apart from how we did it back then.?ÿ What were you doing wrong??ÿ Not a damned thing.?ÿ Are you doing it wrong now??ÿ Probably not.?ÿ
Right or wrong (as opposed to correct or incorrect) is something most folks look at in a their rear-view mirror.?ÿ I personally don't care much about?ÿwhat's in the rear-view mirror...I try to keep mi ojos?ÿon the road in front of me....?ÿ
I've never run into anything behind me!?ÿ ??ÿ
For Dougie's query, I don't think I'd frame things in terms of "right or wrong". I would say "different". Forty three years ago, you were working with a group of people. A team perhaps. All who had distinct functions. Now, as a one man show, you are doing the work of the group all by yourself.
Mr. Cash: I might put forth the proposition that you never ran into anything behind you because you weren't going fast enough. (In reverse that is)
Approximately 11-7-78 for me. ?ÿMight be off one day either way.
First task was to help carry elevation down a twisty little half-dry creek bed with lots of overhanging limbs as part of the early stage of designing a concrete overflow-style dam to store water for irrigation purposes. ?ÿLevel and rod, paper and pencil. ?ÿGood times.
Approximately 11-7-78 for me. ?ÿMight be off one day either way.
First task was to help carry elevation down a twisty little half-dry creek bed with lots of overhanging limbs as part of the early stage of designing a concrete overflow-style dam to store water for irrigation purposes. ?ÿLevel and rod, paper and pencil. ?ÿGood times.
The first job I was on, was a construction project in Boys Town. Zeke was the Party Chief, Arden was the Gunner and I held the dumb end of a rag tape and smoked cigarettes while we laid out grade stakes. when it came time to shoot grade, we got out the linker rod and went to town. This went on for a few weeks and then we got out this Philly rod. I was like, what the hell is that? We use this rod and add and subtract in the field book to get our elevations. Seems kind of unproductive; was my response...
And the never ending advance on technology had only just begun.
I worked for a few companies that never got the instrument out of the box on a town job and never returned to a site to set missing monuments and they never recognized other surveyors monuments.
They were doing it wrong then and got away with it because they had clout on their side of the river.
They have payed the price many times over since for their evil ways when the BOR gained their teeth.
I came up a bit later. I started when I was 17 in 1994. The first instrument I got my hands on was a topcon gts 2b.?ÿ
We bucked into control, spun 90s to check in and calculated our corners. We swung our offsets and set corners on site to get fence offsets.
Technology has made us slower. I used to be able to set up the instrument and turn angles before the modern guns are even booted up. Flat ground and sub 100 feet? A handy steel tape meant the gun didn't even get turned on.
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In 1979 my first job in surveying was drafting which included learning how to read field notes and transform them into a "Survey" drawing for release to the client. This also introduced me to balancing traverses on a HP9810A. I loved that thing. Learned how to program it on magnetic cards.
Some of the notes looked like a first grade attempt to write. That view changed dramatically when they put me on a 4 man crew.?ÿ We were running a control traverse through what is now known as Palm Coast. After being on that crew for a year before they yanked me back in the office I learned more than I ever thought, especially about field notes being written in the field! After a million or two stabs or bites from chigger, mosquito, blackberry patch confrontations, saw palmetto, a near hit from a rattlesnake, I understood the fun of being a Surveyor. The PC taught me not only to look, but to see. He was half Seminole Indian. A brilliant man in more ways than one.?ÿ ??ÿ
Survey of random area in downtown Portland from 1975
Here is another in the same block, 1973
This?ÿ 1975 survey is done by a very reputable Surveyor.?ÿ I don't know the '73 surveyor but his map is typical of the era.
Any more questions about why it takes so much more time and expense to finish a survey today?
Mark
I see lots more information on the 2017 map, including a legend, so I thought I'd find the answer, but, no luck.
What is a B.S. ??ÿ It mst be a common abbreviation, but not to this New Yorker.
Thanks
Ken
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B.S. = Brass Screw.
Common abbreviation but should be in the legend.
As Tim says, BS = brass screw. Something unique to Portland.?ÿ But quite common here. I composed a rather lengthy posting last year about brass screws and the other local phenomena, the Ramsey Point.?ÿ
Great Thread.?ÿ
I started in 1977 working for a surveyor doing residential lot surveys, than I worked for a long established surveyor who did a lot more varied boundary surveys. ?ÿ?ÿ The work was done with three screw transits and a 100ft or 300ft tape.?ÿ 3-man crews, hand signals and flags,?ÿ no radios. ?ÿ?ÿ No EDM.?ÿ Drawings we're ink on vellum or ink on irish linen.?ÿ I didn't see an edm until 1982.?ÿ
Now I'm solo with GPS and robotics and autocad.?ÿ
Is one man faster with gps and total station than years ago with transit and tape and a three man crew??ÿ I wonder.
?ÿSomething unique to Portland.
Unique? I'll call BS (the other sort) on that.
We see them down here too - although not so common now as the driven masonry anchors.
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I'd say we are doing a much better job than we used to do.?ÿ We look at a much bigger picture.?ÿ I started in 1984 and we also used to almost always set the corners without coming back to the office first.?ÿ We also didn't look for as many corners then as we do today.?ÿ?ÿ
