Hello,
I have a question regarding a fair price for a survey I was hoping some of you could answer for me. To make a long story short I went to build a barn/workshop last year and my neighbor tried everything in his power to stop me. The township gave me the go ahead, but said to make sure I was 10 ft from the property line. When I went to look for the survey markers one was missing and the neighbor said his wife ran over it with the car years before and bent it so he removed it. I had no choice but to hire a surveyor. Every surveyor I called was backed up for months. My stepfather is in commercial construction so recommended one for me. He said they estimated it would be $500-$1000. The first day they came out I came home from work and the surveyors were at the property line talking to the neighbor. They said there was a potential encroachment and needed to do more research. I contacted my stepfather who stated he talked to them and now I was looking at the top end so around $1000. They came back a few weeks later and placed the stakes which showed the entire length of my neighbors driveway was approximately 2.5ft on my property. My stepfather received a bill with his companies name on it from the survey company for $2980 for placing the stakes. I'm not sure why they billed him, but he paid it so now I owe him for it. $2980 seemed very excessive for a survey on a 0.66 acre lot.
This year I received a letter from my neighbor's attorney threatening to sue if I do not remove the stakes as he claimed I was clouding the title. The neighbor also hired a surveyor who claimed the edge of his driveway lies exactly on the property line. I hired an attorney and he said we needed to record the survey and then have a mediation with the neighbor and his attorney. I contacted the surveyor for the documentation and he had his guys come back out to locate the stakes the neighbors surveyor placed. I finally get the survey and forward it to my attorney to file it.
Today I receive a bill for $3700 which throws me for a loop. I call the surveyor and ask him why the additional $720 in charges. He says no it was $3700 more to draw up the survey and locate the neighbors new stakes and the initial $2980 just was to place the stakes. So he charged me $6680 to do a survey on a 0.66 acre lot. They did have to do research on my and my neighbor's deeds and went down a few houses each direction from my intersection to verify points, but the price seems extremely excessive. Can I get your opinions on this?
In order for you to get some help you will need to tell us much more about your exact circumstance. We don't want to know the name of any surveyor involved, but, we need to know precisely where you are in Ohio. The reason for that will soon become obvious as various posters attempt to reply to your base question.
County
City
Subdivision
Street
Perhaps a scan of a tax map showing your neighborhood
The total cost for doing a survey is highly variable. It's not the area involved or the number of sides so much as it is the history of development in your exact area.
Holy Cow, post: 395934, member: 50 wrote: In order for you to get some help you will need to tell us much more about your exact circumstance. We don't want to know the name of any surveyor involved, but, we need to know precisely where you are in Ohio. The reason for that will soon become obvious as various posters attempt to reply to your base question.
County
City
Subdivision
Street
Perhaps a scan of a tax map showing your neighborhoodThe total cost for doing a survey is highly variable. It's not the area involved or the number of sides so much as it is the history of development in your exact area.
Thanks for the reply. My area is a farming community and it is very rural. No subdivision here. For legal reasons I feel I shouldn't tell my location just yet until everything is settled with the neighbor.
LostInOhio, post: 395933, member: 12205 wrote: My stepfather is in commercial construction so recommended one for me.
Did you have a contract with the surveyor describing what the payment terms were?
Hiring a surveyor that specializes in commercial construction to do boundary survey may not have been a good choice. Firstly, while they are both types of surveying, they use different skill sets, It is possible for a surveyor could be a great at construction layout, but poor at boundary location and vice-versa. Secondly, they way the two kinds of projects get billed is typically different. Typically, in construction layout you bid the job assuming that that there will be no issues (knowing that every project will have issues) and then you bill (often at an hourly rate) for the change orders. On the other hand, boundary survey fees are usually lump sum contracts.
"My stepfather is in commercial construction so recommended one for me" - sounds scary.
Not all surveyors are created equal. If this firm is not familiar with performing boundary surveys they may be working out of their area of expertise.
My suggestion would be to consult another surveyor for yourself, perhaps one of those that was "booked up" that has experience with boundary surveys and not construction staking. Turn over the data to your second surveyor for his/her analysis and request an opinion on the first surveyor's work? Make some calls to local Boundary/Real Estate Attorneys and ask who the local courts/judges has used for expert advice, contact that surveyor. Unfortunately, your first surveyor may have created a very big problem for you ($$$), or discovered why your neighbor's wife "ran over" that pin. I hope that your first Surveyor has his insurance policy up to date....
Ask yourself - How much is 2.5 feet worth?
If we charged that much for all lot surveys, we'd be rich, or out of business because no one would hire us.
Holy Cow, post: 395934, member: 50 wrote: In order for you to get some help you will need to tell us much more about your exact circumstance. We don't want to know the name of any surveyor involved, but, we need to know precisely where you are in Ohio. The reason for that will soon become obvious as various posters attempt to reply to your base question.
County
City
Subdivision
Street
Perhaps a scan of a tax map showing your neighborhoodThe total cost for doing a survey is highly variable. It's not the area involved or the number of sides so much as it is the history of development in your exact area.
Really why so much information is required is beyond me. I am glad the poster didn't fall for this bait.
Tommy Young, post: 395943, member: 703 wrote: If we charged that much for all lot surveys, we'd be rich, or out of business because no one would hire us.
I was thinking the same thing....wow.
I used to see this picture posted in one of the offices that I used to work at. It really sums up how billing in the construction industry works. I suppose it's a system that you have to game to make any money, but I don't think we should impose this on a uninitiated land owner.
[USER=8199]@not my real name[/USER]
That's not bait. That's precisely where I start out with every client who wants an idea of what it will cost to do their survey. We were being asked to make a judgement on the poster's bill. Pretty much the same thing. From the way he posted it sounded like he was in an urban setting. Now we learn it is a very rural location. Ohio is the most complicated rural state there is thanks to the variety of PLSS instructions that were tried out there first. That is part of why I asked about the county. Van Wert County and Hocking County could be similar or very different from each other. Many Ohio counties have official County Surveyors who may become involved and who may charge significant review fees. Now that we know it is rural, perhaps the line in question is an aliquot line in a section that had never had the center corner set. The so-called prior survey may not have been a true boundary survey at all. So, in order to make any skilled comment as to the appropriateness of the survey invoices, we need to know far more than what was presented.
The question that comes to my mind is why such a difference between the two surveyors' lot line determinations? If you know the identity of the neighbor's surveyor, don't be afraid to call him up and ask for an explanation of the discrepancy. He might refuse, citing client privilege. If so, ask if he would meet with you together with the neighbor. Many of these boundary disputes go too quickly to adversarial posturing, when a conversation about the facts involved might clear things up. Ideally, your surveyor should also be part of the meeting, so that he can present his findings, as well.
StLSurveyor's suggestion to hire a thoroughly vetted 2nd opinion to review, and possibly take over, your surveyor's work is a good one, although it will cost more money. You will either get backup for your current boundary determination, or a solid reason to doubt it's correctness. Better to find out now than in court.
$6800 for a survey of a property which apparently has a host of encroachment and other boundary issues is not outrageous. Just dropping a bill 10x the original estimate without discussion is.
The description of "few houses each direction from my intersection" makes me think there's a lot more to check and mesh than my average farm acreage survey price. Probably increasing it by a factor of two or three.
If your property is assessed at $800k vs. $200k the cost will go up by an appropriate multiplier. Not because I hate rich people, but because if I make a blunder it will potentially cost me that much more $$$.
Then, knowing there's an active conflict will make the cost higher yet. It's the nature of the business. There will be more phone calls, emails, personal visits with the land owner(s) and adjoiners.
Lastly, Cow is right. It's exceedingly difficult to come up with an accurate estimate without more information. You are correct in thinking you shouldn't give out your exact location, but maybe an aerial or drawing that has the names and PLSS data blacked out.
Steve
This is really two survey projects, not one. The first was estimated at $500-1000. That invoice was $2980. That tells me that something was lost in translation between the stepfather explaining what is needed to the estimator and the true effort required. The estimate may have been as valid as one someone's banker gives them while telling them to get it surveyed to make the bank happy. The second invoice was for $3700 for going back out and doing more than was done the first time because there is now a second opinion (survey) in existence. Determining why that second opinion differs from the first is critical. Those of us who have spent time in court understand why it is essential to determine if there was information overlooked the first time out or if this new survey is slanted intentionally (unethical, but it happens) to the neighbor's advantage. I know of a case where a freshly set bar was "found" by the adjoiner's surveyor in a key location. I wish we didn't need to worry about bad apples in our profession, but the reality is that they exist.
Agree with Mark, and would add that more then doubling the price to come back and locate another surveyors more recent stakes does not sound reasonable either. There should have been zero additional research to do after the first survey. When you stake a lot you better be able to defend that location in court - EVERY TIME. That is how I look at boundary surveying.
The first invoice was $2980. The second invoice was $3700.
What would the survey review fees be in California for each of these recorded surveys?
Mark Mayer, post: 395952, member: 424 wrote: $6800 for a survey of a property which apparently has a host of encroachment and other boundary issues is not outrageous. Just dropping a bill 10x the original estimate without discussion is.
The title of this thread is apparently an exaggeration. The original poster states: "My stepfather received a bill with his companies name on it from the survey company for $2980 for placing the stakes."
I can see a lot survey and stakes in a dubious area, even rural, costing $2980.
Ken
I'm surprised that you didn't even get a survey plat for the first $3000. And if they had already sketched it, it seems like peanuts to come out and locate some stakes and add that to the sketch. But I agree also, that you can't get a good evaluation without letting everyone know more information. Surveying isn't really an $X-per-acre kind of deal.
The stepfather doesn't know about surveying except for, probably, what to expect for having some construction-staking done. Getting an estimate from the stepfather and then blaming the surveyor for coming in over the estimate is not a good idea either. Having at least a 'meeting of the minds' with the guy that's doing the work is very important. You don't have a clue what product your getting for your money and how much it will cost in the end.
Holy Cow, post: 395949, member: 50 wrote: [USER=8199]@not my real name[/USER]
Many Ohio counties have official County Surveyors who may become involved and who may charge significant review fees. boundary survey at all. So, in order to make any skilled comment as to the appropriateness of the survey invoices, we need to know far more than what was presented.
The former elected office of County Surveyor was changed to County Engineer in about 1938.
I agree with others who have said that having the final cost be so much more than the original estimate is a serious issue. Additionally, if surveyor 1 did not do enough work to defend his determination the first time, that is on him. Seems like an "oh crap, somebody else surveyed it?! now we have to actually do a retracement!!" situation. All that said, in my part of the world (colonial states) that 3k for a small boundary is not out of the norm.
