eapls2708, post: 396366, member: 589 wrote:
And of course, an attorney who is well versed in boundary law is essential for any legal action (litigation or mediation) over the boundary or against your first surveyor.
I ended up hiring what is probably one of the most prestigious real estate law firms in Ohio. My attorney is an Ivy League graduate and specializes in real estate law. He is listed on "The Best Lawyers in America" for real estate. The reason I say this is when I hired him and let him know who my surveyor is he stated, "He is the best surveyor in the area and I've never seen him wrong. My highest end clients use him." He looked over my evidence and said I definitely have a case against my neighbor if I want to pursue it, but did advise as others have suggested that it is rare to win your legal fees in Ohio.
With that said I have no interest in suing my first surveyor as I am confident his survey is correct. I simply don't agree with his charges. The neighbor on the otherhand I may sue. I realize that I will likely spend more than I will win, but sometimes principle trumps money. I have a neighbor who has tried to control what I do on my property and attempted to stop me from improving it. It backfired on him and now he has tried to find everyway he can to weasel out of the mess he created. Not to mention he is a preacher and has used his position to turn me into the bad guy in the community, continually slander me, and make himself seem the victim.
LostInOhio, post: 396424, member: 12205 wrote: I ended up hiring what is probably one of the most prestigious real estate law firms in Ohio.
Be sure to let us know when the attorney's bill blows by $6700.
There will be two winners in a lawsuit. Lawyer #1 and Lawyer #2. Two winners in a boundary line agreement. Owner #!, and Owner #2.
Tom Adams, post: 396437, member: 7285 wrote: There will be two winners in a lawsuit. Lawyer #1 and Lawyer #2. Two winners in a boundary line agreement. Owner #!, and Owner #2.
Agreed. Hopefully this situation can be resolved in the upcoming mediation, but that will mean the neighbor has to take some accountability for this situation which he refuses to do up to this point. I simply wanted to make an improvement to my property and he has hindered me and cost me money every step of the way.
Mark Mayer, post: 396435, member: 424 wrote: Be sure to let us know when the attorney's bill blows by $6700.
If it goes to trial it most definitely will. Hopefully we can come to an agreement in mediation. However my attorneys billing has nothing to do with the surveyors billing and me considering to spend considerable money on one item or service doesn't validate a different person/business overbilling me for a different item or service.
I also want to add as some of the commenters suggested I shouldnt have hired a "commercial surveyor" that my surveyor does both residential and commercial. My stepfather simply knew him through some commercial dealings.
I appreciate everyones input. This has been a lesson learned for me. On my end I should have made sure I had a contract with my surveyor and I should have made sure there was a cap on it. Had he told me the bill could get over $6000 I would have never hired him and would have waited for one of the other surveyors who quoted me less than $1000.
I had a client who sued his neighbor on principle, by the time it was done he was thoroughly disgusted with the legal system and he said Lawyers are not professionals. He is an Anesthesiologist; he personally checked on a family member having back surgery in the hospital he works in, a really nice guy.
My competitor sent emails to all area realtors letting them know he does lot surveys for $375. Maybe :)you could get him to move there.
This is not the place to sort out this issue. Many do not understand what is involved in boundary surveying, even some surveyors. It is impossible to say what a fair estimate ought to have been from my California lazyboy lounge chair. Try talking to some one in your state's professional surveyor's organization. They may have a professional practices committee and they would be best suited to discuss your situation.
I'm confused.
Why is there a charge for engineering?
:manhole:
A Harris, post: 396457, member: 81 wrote: I'm confused.
Why is there a charge for engineering?
:manhole:
I'm assuming the "CADD time" is drawing the survey, the "ROBOT crew time" is his crew at my property taking measurements, and "engineering" is him or one of his employees looking over deeds, legal descriptions, etc...
LostInOhio, post: 396460, member: 12205 wrote: I'm assuming the "CADD time" is drawing the survey, the "ROBOT crew time" is his crew at my property taking measurements, and "engineering" is him or one of his employees looking over deeds, legal descriptions, etc...
I had the same question. No one is better to look over deeds and legal descriptions than a licensed land surveyor. I was guessing that it was some kind of administrative work on the contract. But that sounds strange too.
LostInOhio, post: 396444, member: 12205 wrote: Had he told me the bill could get over $6000 I would have never hired him and would have waited for one of the other surveyors who quoted me less than $1000.
Then you would have wasted $1000. Your attorney - who apparently is a sophisticated user of surveys and their findings - would have wanted to hire his surveyor to re-do the job. It is entirely possible, even likely, that $6700 is the price it took to do the job properly. The fact that some other surveyor gave you an initial estimate of much less does not prove that his final bill would have equaled his estimate, or that, if it did, his survey would have been worth the paper it was printed on.
It is regrettable, to say the least, that you were not kept better informed about the level of effort that was being expended.
I do find it interesting that you are outraged about a surveyors bill for $6700, but seem to be at ease with an attorney fee that will likely be triple that before you are done. You have hired a "top real estate attorney". You could have phoned around and got bids from various shysters, then hired the low bidder. You seem to think that you would have been better off if you had hired your surveyor that way. Why does that seem appropriate to you for surveyors but not for attorneys?
Finally, a word about attorneys. They will fight for your rights, and bill their time liberally, until you tell them to stop. As such, they have a strong motivation to prolong the fight. It is generally in a Surveyors best interest to bring things to a conclusion as quickly as possible.
Mark Mayer, post: 396472, member: 424 wrote: Then you would have wasted $1000. Your attorney - who apparently is a sophisticated user of surveys and their findings - would have wanted to hire his surveyor to re-do the job. It is entirely possible, even likely, that $6700 is the price it took to do the job properly. The fact that some other surveyor gave you an initial estimate of much less does not prove that his final bill would have equaled his estimate, or that, if it did, his survey would have been worth the paper it was printed on.
It is regrettable, to say the least, that you were not kept better informed about the level of effort that was being expended.
I do find it interesting that you are outraged about a surveyors bill for $6700, but seem to be at ease with an attorney fee that will likely be triple that before you are done. You have hired a "top real estate attorney". You could have phoned around and got bids from various shysters, then hired the low bidder. You seem to think that you would have been better off if you had hired your surveyor that way. Why does that seem appropriate to you for surveyors but not for attorneys?
Finally, a word about attorneys. They will fight for your rights, and bill their time liberally, until you tell them to stop. As such, they have a strong motivation to prolong the fight. It is generally in a Surveyors best interest to bring things to a conclusion as quickly as possible.
In reply to the "wasting of $1000" on the first surveyor if it goes to trial I may have to pay for a second survey anyway. We are going to make the case the neighbor's surveyor was biased at minimum and potentially fraudulent. I imagine that will result in the judge ordering an independent survey that we will have to split the cost of.
Not to slight the surveying community in any way, but the average consumer is going to always expect to spend more on an attorney than a surveyor. I never expected for any of this to result in me getting an attorney. I simply set out to build a 24x24ft workshop on my own property. The township advised me to be sure I was 10ft from the property line and the neighbor had removed the stake. Therefore, I wanted a survey to be sure I was that distance from the boundary line and and also have documentation in case the township requested it once I started construction so I didnt have to move an entire building over a foot or two. An attorney was never on my mind at this point. Once I started getting threatening calls and letters from my neighbor's attorney I made the decision to hire my own. And I did call around to attorneys. Most general practice attorney's seemed to have little knowledge of boundary law and if I'm going to court I'm not setting myself up for failure so had to hire an expert on the matter. It turns out my attorney advised me my surveyor is also excellent which is good news, but that still does not excuse his inability to estimate jobs properly or advise his clients that bills are approaching triple and later 6 times his original quote until after he had already done unauthorized work.
The difference with the attorney is he clearly stated his rates and gave me average figures for what mediation and litigation will cost. The surveyor made it seem it was a flat cost job, never mentioned hourly figures, did extra work without authorization, etc.. When the bill for $2910 came in I dealt with it and assumed for 3 times the price he could provide documentation. For him to do additional work at the tune of $3700 without my knowledge when I simply asked for my documentation is the biggest issue. Again lesson learned. I appreciate everyone's comments and replies. From a consumers standpoint we dont quite realize what can go into a survey. This post has definitely been educational.