Scale Bars on plats

I don't put them on unless it's required.

They are still good practice since some jurisdictions (don't know where but remember hearing about it) only record certain size drawings. If they record a reduced size copy, the scale is blown, so the bar helps.

SOP here. Required in many cases, just plain good practice in the rest. I use an AutoLISP function to generate the scale bar as an anonymous block, so it takes me about 1 second to put one on my map.

A graphic scale and text (e.g. 1 inch = 100 feet) are required in NC but I'd put them on regardless. It's cheap insurance and doesn't take up much real estate.

At one of my former employs we would not put the scale bar on the surveys, but always on the Engineering plans. The boss' (PE/LS) philosophy - "only those dumb engineers need a scale bar, surveys should have all of the dimensions necessary". However with the use of scanners and printing a 24 x 36 on 8 1/2 x 11 it does help in case you really do need to scale something.

I think it's a given in today's world that a drawing will be displayed to an end user at a scale other than what the surveyor drew. (What does "what the surveyor drew" even mean if the drawing was drawn, signed, and sealed on a computer screen?) So textural scales such as 1:500 is in doubt unless the viewer is looking at paper or Mylar and the signature and seal were clearly applied by hand.

The end user can be left to his/her own devices, but many end users lack the skills to measure a dimensioned line and calculate the scale for themselves. So leaving off the graphic scale is essentially a message to those end users. "Hey, this is the restricted section of the drawing library. Get the $%&* out of here!" Also, calculating one's own scale can get tiresome when reading at various magnifications on a computer.

My perspective is as a retired integrated circuit designer. Early in my career paper drawings were somewhat useful. By the end of my career, essentially all reading of drawings was done online. Of course the signatures and seals customary among surveyors and building-oriented engineers were not required. Data authentication was required, and writing suitable software for some of that was among the projects I worked on. It was only realistic to read drawings in CAD software that helped you with whatever measurement you wanted to make, so graphic scales and dimensioning were unnecessary.

I have bar-scale .dwg blocks for every engineering scale you can imagine. Takes about 10 seconds to insert to the drawing. Looks professional.

"I have bar-scale .dwg blocks for every engineering scale you can imagine. Takes about 10 seconds to insert to the drawing. Looks professional."

We have the same.

I have no issue with a scale bar on the plat, but I really don't understand why a couple of the cities around here want a scale bar on the cover sheet, the whole sheet is nothing but text, except for the vicinity map which is clearly stated as "not to scale"

In my juridiction it is required for maps that are recorded. It has a benefit to users who obtain reduced size maps. Also, the software I use makes it easy to include a graphic scale.

I refuse to do my plats with the expectation that someone will scan/print it to odd sizes. If they reduce or expand it, that's on them. It's a reason to move away from scale bars, not a reason to include them.

I wholeheartedly disagree the fact that someone may print it a different size is the exact reason to include the scale bar. If I print a plat it doesn't matter what size I print it, that scale bar is the the same relative size to the rest of the plat, so it is still extremely useful. I might have to do a little math but I can still figure things out. saying its a 1/20 scale is useless as there is nothing to compare to.

Surveys have scale bars all over them, every line with a dimension is essentially a scale bar...

That said, a scale bar is very useful. Every single thing I create is scanned or is 100% digital. No scanning is perfect, and digital copies can be printed on anything at all, and at any scale.

Make it easy, takes no time.

The more this is discussed, the less I want to use them.

It's usually a pain to find room for them, the only plats where they are required are Subdivision Plats, and those are so filled with notes that it's a challenge to find a spot.

I keep a scale around as a sanity check on my declared scale for each map.

But who and why is someone using a scale on my maps?

We have a disclaimer under the Surveyor's Statement that the plat isn't valid without a signature and seal, I should add rescale to that disclaimer. Not valid if scanned or printed at a scale different than shown.

Engineering scales are old technology.

I've developed a scale bar that is a "Dynamic Block". Look it up. In this form it has a button which activates a pulldown from which the appropriate scale can be selected. With this I only need one scale bar block, not one for every possible scale factor.

I actually think that the scale bar is a necessary thing, since it is so easy these days to plot our drawings at any random scale.

I'm not sure when dynamic scale blocks showed up (maybe mid 90's?). We have them with a graphic scale, a north arrow, coordinate, elevation, scale factor statements. The block can be inserted into a drawing and it displays the proper scale.

The question is who is altering the drawings, rescaling them and then needing help in figuring out the "new" scale?

Why would it be the surveyor's responsibility to make it easier to use an altered drawing? The stated scale and the many lines are sufficient to have as a check if the drawing is compromised.

So, is the scale bar important to show that drawing is altered (all the lines will show that anyway), or is the argument that it's important to help third parties alter the drawing and still use it?

Cause if the argument is the latter count me out.

I'll assume MightyMoe just expressed themselves badly and didn't actually intend to accuse everyone who ever looked a survey plat they didn't pay for it of planning to deceitfully alter it. Let's take a look at a PDF from the Vermont Land Survey Library, located near 73°08'34" W 43°36'41" (web Mercator WGS 1984), a survey drawn by Land Surveyor Timothy L Short, not signed, not sealed, and not dated.

When displaying the whole sheet and displaying it as large as I can fit in my screen, the displayed scale is 1 inch = 170 feet. To display it at the scale indicated in the drawing, 1 inch = 100 feet, I would need a screen 20.4 inches tall just for the survey, plus some more for the rest of the Adobe Reader display and the Windows control bar. Sorry, I don't feel like running out and buying a monitor that large.

If I choose to display it at the scale stated on the drawing, and only seeing part of the drawing at a time, Adobe Reader purports that the actual size of the page is 8.5 X 11 inches, so any help that the software might offer in zooming to the correct scale would be a lie. Since I'm not a surveyor, I've never been through the process of submitting a drawing to this library. I don't know if it was Mr. Short who submitted it as 8.5 X 11 or if the folks who run the library shrunk it to that size.

https://landsurvey.vermont.gov/

Anyone can download my boundary surveys, my state being a recording state, and print them out at will. I may not be liable for misuse, but I still like to avoid trouble wherever I can. A scale bar helps with that.