I need to get some topo shots on a few lots that are all fully fenced in with a locked gate at the entrance of a private road. What do you guys usually do in this situation? I'm in Florida so I have ROE laws on my side, but I don't exactly want to scale their fences either.
I wouldn't scale the fence. But, if ROE was on my side, depending on the athletic ability, the likelihood of his return, and my need of him to complete the he project, I would send my second over.
If they are under 30, generally a comment like, "I bet you can't get over that fence," works great.
We don't have ROE here, but a locked, fully fenced lot usually means "there is something here that I don't want you to see"
Plus to stick a crew member in a locked fenced area with a potential angry, hungry attack dog might be a death sentence.
Best bet... Call the owner and ask permission. Go reflectorless for the building shot, and don't worry about the topo.
I would:
1. Try to contact the guy but if he says no then you're shut down.
2. Try to get what I need reflectorlessly.
3. Jump the fence and take my chances. If I get caught I would use the old "What!?! I thought the boss contacted you!"
I'll have to brush up on my right to entry law here in NYS but I'm not sure topo shots would be covered.
Here in NH we do not have ROE laws. I always ask. I look at it from the perspective of the landowner. If it were my property, I would like it if the surveyor had the common courtesy and respect to ask. Even if we did have ROE laws I would still ask. It is just part of our professionalism.
Kjac,
Just curious, why do you need to take topo shots on properties not owned by your client? I wouldn't step foot past a locked gate without permission of the owner.
Dave
> Kjac,
>
> .... why do you need to take topo shots on properties not owned by your client?
I run into this all the time. Typical requirements for a topographic survey include elevation grid extending 50' offsite. I assume that is because the engineers have to show that they won't affect the neighbors with their drainage plan.
Survey For A Septic System Requires More Than Topo
Certain adjacent
Certain adjacent features, especially wells, septic systems, open waters, sinkholes must be shown on adjacent parcels.
Paul in PA, PE, PLS
> I need to get some topo shots on a few lots that are all fully fenced in with a locked gate at the entrance of a private road. What do you guys usually do in this situation?
I'd note such things on my scoping and exclude them from my proposal. I might get some shots a short distance inside the fence by offsetting or reflectorless, if reasonable in the circumstances. But mostly I'd show it as an inaccessible area on my topo.
Full fencing, locked gates, and private roads are frequently accompanied by dogs and/or video surveillance. Not worth it.
I don't have their phone numbers and with everyone moving to cell phones the whitepages has become about useless. Reflectorless isn't an option here unfortunately.
That's correct, this engineer calls for 100ft off site, which is the most I've ever seen anyone call for.
I have had clients require that I gather information on adjoining properties.
When I find that I can't get into those properties I make a note that they were inaccessible and that I have exhausted my means and resources to gain access.
Put in your client's court to get that access if they want if so much.
I am in Texas and access can be obtained by court order if it is so necessary and they can persuade a Judge to grant one. That time and expense is outside the scope of a contract.
Appropriate Monday Morning Humor
Once upon a time a DEA Agent was on a ground recon mission looking for weed patches. He came upon a triple locked gate with several "No Trespassing" signs affixed thereto. He proceeded to make his way to the farmhouse and pounded on the door. When the farmer answered he demanded entrance through the gate.
"Can't let you in there." replied the farmer. The Agent got red-faced pissed, flashed his badge and threatened the farmer with arrest if he didn't unlock the gate.
The farmer reluctantly unlocked the gate and let the Agent pass. Not too long after that the farmer could hear the Agent screaming for help. Seems as though a 2700 lb. Santa Gertrudis bull had taken exception to his presence in the pasture.
"DO SOMETHING, MISTER!" cried the Agent as he ran past the gate with the bull in pursuit.
"SHOW HIM YOUR BADGE!" hollered the farmer in reply.
Moral of the story: Sometimes gates are locked for a reason. Enter at your own risk. Although topo groundshots can be a trick, we use a reflectorless TS for such occasions.
> That's correct, this engineer calls for 100ft off site, which is the most I've ever seen anyone call for.
If you cannot get into the site, get a photogrammetrist involved. Perhaps when the additional cost is realized, the engineer will say never mind....
Ken
If it is an ALTA, five feet either side of the line would be one reason.
If it is for a grading plan and you can't drain to that property you might need to know what the grade is over there.
Those are just two reasons, I'm sure there are a hundred others.
Why not have the engineer contact the owner and get permission?
How hilly is it?
I would complete the job and drawing without going over. Then go back to the site with my completed drawing and sketch the topo in past the fence. When you add these contours to the drawing, make them dashed lines and a big note that explains why and that they are approximate. The engineers I have worked with just what some idea of the surrounding area, they are not doing any earthwork there.
> Here in NH we do not have ROE laws. I always ask. I look at it from the perspective of the landowner. If it were my property, I would like it if the surveyor had the common courtesy and respect to ask. Even if we did have ROE laws I would still ask. It is just part of our professionalism.
:good: :good: :good: :good:
In Kentucky we have ROE and it contains the responsibility of attempting contact of the neighbors.
I think of it from the same perspective. I know I would not be too happy to look out my window and see some guy in my back yard.
Scott McLain above is right. Or you could get a reflectorless gun and do it.
N
KJac-
You could ask your Ontario "Snowbird" friends to bring down some Ontario "Surveys Act" access magic powder:
6. (1) A surveyor or a person in the surveyor’s employ while making a survey may,
(a) at any time enter and pass over the land of any person; or
(b) at any time suitable to the occupant of a building enter the building,
and do any act thereon or therein for any purpose of the survey, but the surveyor is liable for any damage occasioned thereby.
Offence for obstructing
(2) Every person who interferes with or obstructs a surveyor or a person in the surveyor’s employ in the exercise of any of the powers conferred by subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not more than $100. R.S.O. 1990, c. S.30, s. 6.
Do note if someone interferes with you they get to pay a fine of $100.
We are so up to date in Ontario !
Cheers,
Derek
PS-
I've always tried to use my 'common sense' head regarding access.
No amount of statute law will deflect bullets !
