What do the pros think?
Wow! That sums it up fairly well. I can't really use the words I word prefer to use in describing the arrogant neighbors.
That is terrible.
Other people suck.
In Florida, courts have ruled that if you divide a parcel and create a new land locked parcel, then the access to the land locked portion has to run through the original parcel. Seems like common sense. The problem here is the Sheriff threatening to arrest the guy for not allowing his idiot neighbor to trespass. I might be willing to go to jail, if it were me.
I don't know what state that is in, but in PA there is supposedly no such thing as a "landlocked" property. If a property does not have access to a road, then they can petition a board of viewers to determine through which property an access can be granted. Access to a road is a fundamental right in PA.
Reality may be different, but that is what statutes in PA say. However, I wonder if that would apply if the situation was created by their own action.
I have an 8.5 acre property. Adjacent to it is an abandoned 1.5 wooded acre tract left over from a subdivision. It remains in the name of the development company which ceased to exist in 1970, and no property taxes have been paid since 1970. It is surrounded on three sides by small 1/4 or 1/2 acre lots with houses. The only open side abuts my property. Theoretically someone could buy it, and petition for access across my property. For this reason I hope to purchase it at sheriff's sale someday. The tax liens were sold as part of a large bundle of tax delinquent properties in the county. The company that bought the liens is of course willing to sell, but it must be done at sheriff's sale, which I know nothing about. In the meantime I just have to worry about archery hunters crossing my land to get into the woods. We have a deer problem in my town, and usually about 10-15 deer are grazing on my property. My wife will not allow anyone to kill them, so hunters know they bed down in that woods.
A couple of thoughts come to mind:
- What is the "driveway"? Is it truly a driveway or is it an old road bed that has existed for 100 years? The distinction could be crucial.
- In Virginia we also have by statute that there is no "land locked land", but that was recently over turned in limited cases by the Virginia Supreme Court. In this case a piece of land was cut off by interstate construction, but since the owners accepted compensation for the land taking the court ruled it was their own doing and other adjacent owners did not have to provide access.
Is there anyplace available to nominate the neighbor that landlocked himself for the "Moron of the Year" award?
Most Law Enforcement would tell the neighbor that it's a Civil Matter. Don't call us unless it becomes a criminal matter. Trespassing is a criminal matter.
James
Private Road?
I want to know where the road goes. Is it a dead end at his house? Are the neighbors expecting to drive through the yard past the house and make a new way to their place?
I'll guess that the road goes to his house. If it goes anywhere else, then someone could end up on his side of the gate ringing to get OUT.
I would say that, in PA, they would continue to use the access they were using before they sold land. Locate CL and create an easement or private lane.
As was mentioned, there is a legal statute that could, in some way, prescribe a solution. It might not be the solution you were looking for but a solution all the same.
Maybe that's a Commonwealth thing.
Private Road?
They made a drawing of their property in their first post here
Quote from Reddit article:
>Tonight I was visited by the sheriff. He told me very short and sweet that I cannot deny my neighbors access to their property via an established road. He said, "I better not get another call. From this point forward you will allow them to get to and from their property and will not lock them out or in." Then he walked away. Called the lawyer.
Wait till they call 9-1-1, and the gate blocks the access. Then see how the Sheriff responds. If the access is traditionally through another property, I don't know how they will force access, (In WA, simply not liking your current access doesn't make you landlocked, I don't think) but:
I am no attorney, so legal advice will not be found here, but I am a surveyor, and I have some surveyor advice:
Getting in a huge fight and legal battle with your neighbor is almost always crazy (in the clinical sense). Keeping someone from their home out of spite, and some strange sense of "gotcha" is not conducive to living in peace on that property. It is always fascinating how these small landowners get so attached to their little parcel, and feel it is so obvious that they are in the right, and that they had no option but to sue.
However, that being said, and only hearing one side...I think that I would not let him use it...I would feel manipulated.
The only winners will be the lawyers. The surveyors will get some money as well, but unlike the lawyers, none that I know will take pleasure in participating in this circus.
That difference (between lawyers and surveyors) is always interesting to me. We all seem to hold our noses at the prospect of adversarial work, and they seem to relish seeing neighbors fight.
Have to include this photo:
Private Road?
Didn't see the link.
That was a bad idea on the surveyor's part. I'd like to know where their original access is. Definitely wouldn't be using MY drive as his new one.
Is this subdivision legal? Are no-frontage lots allowed in MN?
That said, there should be an easement by necessity over the front lot when they sold it, and land-locked the remaining land.
If the poster's driveway is just a private driveway, then these other people made a pretty bad assumption, thinking that they can use it after they sold their access off.
I think the first question - probably for a land-law specialist attorney - is does this state allow for land-locked property at all. If not, then I would think the creation of the land-locking situation would be invalidated to start with.
Personally, I think it's mighty snooty/arrogant [insert appropriate expletive] for the creator of the land-locking situation to just assume they would just start using your drive to get to their property. If they left their car at the gate on my property I would call the sheriff to have said "abandoned" vehicle removed (i.e. towed).
Until an amiable solution comes about, I wouldn't allow access. If you do, I think it will get into things like "estopel" (sp?) and/or a "prescriptive easement". I'm barely familiar with either term to be honest so don't quote me on that.
I'm sure someone will correct me or flame me and set me pants on fire. 😉
That's why I recommend getting a land-law specialist involved.
E.
That's interesting. I hope he keeps posting updates.
I'm with you Dave; we are only seeing one side of the story here. It looks like the poster is getting the raw end of the deal, but there may be more to the story, that he is not telling us.
What they need is a good mediator; maybe Foggy Idea could help them out.
I like your sign, LOL....
In my area it is up to a judge to determine the access to land locked property. It seems to me the judge would lean toward using the same route prior to separating the property and not the neighbors drive way.
Private Road?
I didn't see a drawing on that page.
The OP may not be telling us everything. I wonder about that driveway back to the shed or garage. Was it at one time an access to the land that is now owned by the blue neighbor? If it hasn't been used as such for a long time, he may be ok, but careful research of it would be in order for his lawyer.
