We performed a survey at the request of the seller in June or July.?ÿ She explains this is going to be a getaway spot for a nephew to enjoy for hunting.?ÿ I agreed that it would be loaded with deer and turkey and .....................but that it would be difficult to make sure you weren't shooting towards a house as it was so dense.?ÿ Somewhere along in our initial conversation she indicated the nephew would be building a small cabin, with a basement near the back side somewhere.?ÿ I explained that everything being surveyed was in a flood plain.?ÿ The odds of any part of it being able to qualify for a LOMA would be nearly zero and definitely zero if a basement was built.
Yesterday's Ring Ring
Him:?ÿ Hey, this is CR and you did a survey for me a few months back.
Me:?ÿ Hmm, sorry but I don't remember doing a survey for you.
Him:?ÿ Oh, you actually did it for my Aunt SB but I paid for it.
Me:?ÿ OK.?ÿ I do remember your name from the check.?ÿ How can I help you?
Him:?ÿ This is my first trip down (150 miles from THE CITY) and I need to know how to find the survey stakes.
Me:?ÿ (Told him what to look for and where with the best descriptions I could come up with other than "In a jungle of crap so thick you can't walk through it")
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Today's Ring Ring
Him:?ÿ Hey, this is CR from yesterday's call.?ÿ I checked with the County about getting in on their sweet deal for lower taxes on new homes.?ÿ They said I couldn't build because my property is in the flood plain.?ÿ What the heck!?!?!?!?!??ÿ They said to give you a call to see if you might be able to prove it's not in the flood plain.
Me:?ÿ (Visualizing money falling from the sky.)?ÿ Well, here is what we do and what might or might not help you. Followed this with a lengthy discussion of the?ÿ difficulty involved and how it might be a smart idea to not build anything.
Him:?ÿ Well, let's try anyway.?ÿ I really want to make this happen.
Perhaps he could build a tree house.?ÿ
I'm not kidding. Lots of places have houses with the main living floor well above ground level.?ÿ
Perhaps he could build a tree house.?ÿ
I'm not kidding. Lots of places have houses with the main living floor well above ground level.?ÿ
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Agreed.?ÿ I would rather have a garage underneath the house in that scenario.?ÿ Build it out of CMU's/concrete and just wait for the waters to recede.
https://www.trendir.com/stunning-floodplain-home-incorporates-unique-and-functional-pilings/
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Neat ideas..............but................one big flaw.?ÿ The steps need to be physically separated from the main structures by a couple of inches.?ÿ When they are attached to the main structure, the flood rating is at the bottom of the steps, not several feet higher.?ÿ Many, many dollars wasted because of a bad flood insurance rating for decades..
Also need to jack up any air conditioners or other ancillary equipment to be attached at floor level instead of setting on the ground far below.
Neat ideas..............but................one big flaw.?ÿ The steps need to be physically separated from the main structures by a couple of inches.
Also need to jack up any air conditioners
I don't see these as "flaws". They are simply issues to deal with. Certainly these are not deal killers.
A number of years ago I was lured into a sojourn to SE OK with a buddy.?ÿ He had a line on a 40 acre in the mountains down there.?ÿ He wanted to see the property and he needed my surveying talents.?ÿ First off he needed to be able to find it, and second, he was interested if this one particular "clearing" was actually part of the property.?ÿ?ÿ
This was in the days of quad-sheets before GE. Most of this quarter-quarter was on the edge of the mountain.?ÿ Prudent scaling of the quad-sheet indicated this +/- level "cabin site" was just near the edge of the guessed at boundary.?ÿ With the chance of life-time deer hunting rights I agreed to go with him.
The price at the time was $10K for 40 acres.?ÿ A real steal, but the nearest jeep trail was a half mile from the place.?ÿ The cost of serving the property with electricity could exceed the purchase price.?ÿ And it fell ominously close to a confluence of Rock Creek and Little River.?ÿ Both being robust waterways.
With my talents, a '65 Dodge Power Wagon and a quad-sheet we ground to a halt just about a half mile from the place.?ÿ A rough hike downhill an an hour later we found enough landmark info provided by the seller to determine "we had arrived".
It was a deer hunter's paradise.?ÿ And as the quad had indicated most of the forested 40 acres was at about an 8% incline, terminating in about a two or three acre meadow perfect for a cabin.?ÿ It was indeed bucolic woodlands.?ÿ My buddy was most intrigued by the mature timber, hickory, walnut, oak and pine.?ÿ There was at least enough for someone to build a grand cabin.
As my buddy ran around inspecting the place I decided to determine just how distant this river was from the place.?ÿ It was less than a quarter-mile....One very flat quarter-mile.?ÿ
We met back up at a rather large and prominent hickory tree.?ÿ While my buddy was making plans as to the location of his cabin I happened to look up into the branches of that old hickory.?ÿ About 10' up I saw what I first thought might be an eagle's nest.?ÿ Then I realized it was a brush snag around the trunk from the last inundating gully-washer that had moved through there.
A little more exploring proved that eight or ten feet of water probably came through there regularly with an attitude.?ÿ It took me most of the ride back to town to convince him anything he built in that meadow would be temporary at best.
There were no detailed FEMA flood panels for that area at the time.?ÿ But with the physical evidence from the last thunderstorm no maps were really required...?ÿ?ÿ
@paden-cash?ÿ You are a good friend to have helped out your buddy like that....
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It took me most of the ride back to town to convince him anything he built in that meadow would be temporary at best.
Hey Unc, after you "convinced" your bud of the above did you buy the parcel? ?????ÿ
I'm looking out my window at a spot were 1020 feet is in the flood plain.?ÿ A few miles to the northeast there is a flood plain at about 1100 feet near the northeast corner of the county.?ÿ Near the center of the county is a city where the lowest BFE is 888 feet.?ÿ It's all the same watershed, so people think that if a flood hits the 1100 foot level, the city would be under 212 feet water.?ÿ Trying to educate the public sometimes is an extremely difficult thing to do.
BTW, if a flood ever hits 1100 feet everywhere in the county, there would only be a few sections left untouched out of 576 sections.?ÿ The county to the south would completely disappear plus a big chunk of northeast Oklahoma.
Similar to Paden's tale:
I had a wingnut take me out on a row boat to an island in the middle of the Hudson River where he wanted to build his house. When I pointed out the trees that had their bark taken off by flowing ice he said it was from beaver.
Funny how those beaver only chewed on the upstream side of the tree
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Maybe they like a little moss with their bark.
A title person calls me. She wants to build a house next to a creek. It's a small creek, a bit wider than a step over stream. There is considerable drainage area and I told her I can but it's going to cost since there's no FEMA flood plain there.?ÿ
Then she tells me that they want their deck extended over the creek. Took me an hour or so to convince her it's a bad idea, I got my Flood Plain guy to look at it to finally put the stake through the heart of that one. Some things you don't need to survey, I doubt the foundation would have been more than 2 feet above the normal HWL.?ÿ
Had a client who asked about another project where he intended to build a VERY nice new home right along a creek in a flood plain.?ÿ Not too far from his business office out in the boondocks.?ÿ It would be even closer to the creek than his office.?ÿ His office has sliding glass doors on all sides that they open when they know the creek will flood them.?ÿ Everything is up high enough to let that do minimal damage to the concrete block building and furnishing.?ÿ The guy's net worth is in double digit millions so he doesn't worry about insurance or anything silly like that.?ÿ Do what you want.?ÿ Pay for your foolishness.?ÿ You have to spend your money somewhere.
He did exactly what he planned to do.
Probably 30 years ago we did an elevation certificate on a natural mound just off a state highway.?ÿ The nearby COE lake had a flowage easement that determined the max elev.?ÿ The house was several feet above the magic number, so no problem.?ÿ Well, that is, unless you wanted to leave.?ÿ The several hundred feet out to the highway dropped something like five to seven feet lower than the magic number on the driveway.?ÿ Better get that baby rolling and have all the windows rolled up if you wanted to take a standard vehicle across.
Neat ideas..............but................one big flaw.?ÿ The steps need to be physically separated from the main structures by a couple of inches.?ÿ When they are attached to the main structure, the flood rating is at the bottom of the steps, not several feet higher.?ÿ Many, many dollars wasted because of a bad flood insurance rating for decades..
I've never heard that before.?ÿ And I've surveyed hundreds of houses on pilings in A and V zones.?ÿ ?ÿ Where would that nugget of information be in the FEMA documents??ÿ?ÿ
This has been pointed out in several FEMA presentations I have attended.?ÿ Anything that is ATTACHED to the structure can cause damage to the remainder of the structure and must be considered in the evaluation of insurance rating.?ÿ If the stairs are free-standing, they don't count as part of the structure.?ÿ The same with a deck.?ÿ Here is some wording from Section 4.2 of the MT-1 Guidance:
The LAG is defined as the elevation of the lowest point of ground touching a structure; it must include: ? Structural supports for a building, such as piers, posts or columns ? An attached garage ? Supports for an attached deck ? The bottom of a loading dock (see Section 4.10) ? Attached stairs including exterior basement stairs (see Section 4.10) ? The bottom of window wells (see Section 4.10) ? Any accessory or additional building attached by a breezeway, pedestrian bridge, covered entryway, etc. In the picture, the LAG should be inclusive of both buildings due to the breezeway attaching both buildings.
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Check this out:
FF-086-0-33 Elevation Certificate and Instructions, 2015 Edition
This is sort of like the lowest elevation of equipment item on the list.?ÿ It seems to be very important to the insurance industry although in most cases here it is an air-conditioning unit sitting on a little slab next to the house.?ÿ Somehow, damage to that unit theoretically can damage some other portion of the house.?ÿ I don't really understand it, but, somehow they figure into the cost for the insurance.
I have no need for flood insurance, myself, but, have sat through too many thrilled packed CE programs on the topic.
