Hello.?ÿ I am surveying a parcel which is bisected by a railroad.?ÿ In the past, I've always used the as-built tracks as the basis for the centerline of the R/W, but in this case that practice would disagree with distance calls to section monumentation shown on the RR Plat and also the description of a deeded road R/W which was intended to run along it.?ÿ ?ÿSo my question- is it a hard and fast rule to hold the as-built tracks as the basis for the R/W or is other evidence acceptable??ÿ If I held other evidence, the tracks would still be contained in the calculated R/W, jut not necessarily the center.?ÿ Otherwise if the tracks were held, it would create a gap between the RR R/W and road R/W which obviously wasn't the intention.?ÿ Thanks in advance for your input.?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ
The tracks are not necessarily centered in the R/W. Just through normal use and maintenance projects the location of the tracks can move. If you have other evidence, I would use that. I've been to a few Railroad surveying seminars and the consensus is that you should use everything except the tracks.
That's the practice BLM uses in Alaska where there is evidence and mapping by the railroad with ties from the ROW to existing monumentation.?ÿ ?ÿAlaska is fortunate because as a requirement to pass title from the Federal Government to the State of Alaska as part of the Alaska Railroad Transfer Act, a federal survey (BLM) was required to executed, approved and filed prior to patent issued.?ÿ Those are very interesting surveys, all done typically on a township by township basis as a U.S. Survey (note all Alaska railroad U.S. Surveys are numbered in the 9000 series with U.S.S. No. 9001 starting in Seward, Alaska and sequential numbered going northerly towards Fairbanks).?ÿ Also, since the bearing requirements were true geodetic mean bearings, the circular and compound spiral curves do not compute or provide plat closure without doing the computations in Geodetics.?ÿ With bearings to the nearest minute and distances in links (0.66 feet) it buffalos many when they try to work with the plat and monument evidence.?ÿ It all works good if you carefully read the plat and field notes and have geodetic cogo software.?ÿ I should do a presentation on these, there have been several done over the years at conferences pre-internet.?ÿ Sorry for Alaska rabbit trail to your question.
In years before those federal surveys here in Alaska, licensed surveyors as well as the government had to rely on the track centerlines or ROW documents on file with the Federal Railroad that showed specific controlling ties to rectangular survey, U.S. Survey, or private survey monumentation and then that would be controlling over the plat.?ÿ ?ÿThe principle is that if there is only the tracks available as evidence for the the location of the railroad's ROW, that's usually your only and best evidence.?ÿ ?ÿIf there had been survey?ÿ and reference to monumentation with official mapping, go with that as the best evidence, but its prudent to verify the location of the track but realize that repair and realignment of the track can may make slight or significant changes of the location of the track within the ROW.?ÿ ?ÿ
You should get copy of RR ROW map (I think u have same) and tie to monumentation to include curves and mile markers. ?ÿWe have had to go up to 2 miles away to collect data to put row back. ?ÿAlso watch out for the rail bosses when trespassing on their row unless you have certification and permits. Curves are generally spiral.?ÿ
In Mississippi, the old Illinois Central right-of-way was mapped using the centerline of the main track to dimension to the right-of-way limits.?ÿ The main line has since been removed, leaving the secondary track as the "new main line".?ÿ The new main line is 14' west of the old main line. All railroad right-of-way monuments found over the years (an excess of 40 monuments) all agree with the alignment and dimensions from the old main line, give or take 0.35'.?ÿ I recommend you contact the Railroad Real Estate Department to get their VAL-Map for the area you are working in.?ÿ Make sure to ask the all important questions regarding their knowledge of changes that have been made since the date of the map.?ÿ The Real Estate Department is also helpful with obtaining deeds not found in the local courthouses.
All great info and suggestions.?ÿ Thanks again for all you're help!?ÿ ?ÿ
In NC, the railroad right of way is where the railroad says it is, end of discussion, heave to, cease and desist.
I can think of a case where the words in the recorded document describing where the R-O-W was supposed to be do not agree with the physical location and fences on either side such that they do not even touch what was described, including?ÿ massive stone abutments allowing the tracks to cross a significant creek (river in some states).
The tracks are not necessarily centered in the R/W. Just through normal use and maintenance projects the location of the tracks can move. [?ÿ .?ÿ .?ÿ .?ÿ ]
Even when newly constructed the track may not be centered in the R/W by a considerable amount, in anticipation of double tracking the mainline (or more) or installation of a siding, which may not occur.
The real ROW gold standards are the ROW monuments.?ÿ
VAL maps are tax maps, often there may be a number of them. And they may disagree with each other.?ÿ
If there is an original ROW map that is the thing to have.?ÿ
If you can get a copy, Charlie Tucker did seminars all over the country for surveyors and had a nice book for all attendees. I'm guessing a local surveyor may have a copy, there is lots of info in it to answer your questions.?ÿ
@mightymoe one of our projects had the R/W monuments, vertical rails up a couple of feet. A Highway runs parallel to the tracks so most of the monuments have been hit hard enough to bend them, that must hurt.
?ÿ
For those interested in the Alaska Railroad surveys, I attached U.S. Survey No. 9015 which is in the Anchorage area and about as complex as these get.?ÿ ?ÿIf you dig into it, you will see that there were a lot of State Authority surveys that had previously tired to define the ROW for adjoining property based on track location.?ÿ ?ÿSome monumented lines were held, others were not and lots were created in the area of conflict.?ÿ ?ÿ
Those old monuments are tough to recover around here. It's always a feel good moment.?ÿ
In NC, the railroad right of way is where the railroad says it is, end of discussion, heave to, cease and desist.
Yep and don't call and ask anything about the R/W because they will hang up on you.
