Data Processing

I tried both Carlson and TBC this summer and I ended up buying a TBC license yesterday actually.?ÿ I sure hope it doesn't come back to bite me in the ass...

Why does the boss like Carlson when all the equipment is Trimble?

Use TBC for adjustments, Carlson for drafting.

One reason I use TBC for adjustments is because it's integrated with our field equipment. I don't want coordinates changing later. I don't use Carlson, but I'm assuming the workflow for adjusting in it won't be as seamless as using TBC.?ÿ

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I tried both Carlson and TBC this summer and I ended up buying a TBC license yesterday actually.?ÿ I sure hope it doesn't come back to bite me in the ass...

Why does the boss like Carlson when all the equipment is Trimble?

Carlson is far superior drafting software.?ÿ It also appears the Field to Finish works better in Carlson.

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Carlson is far superior drafting software.?ÿ It also appears the Field to Finish works better in Carlson.

Is this is coming from the boss-man who doesn't like and has barely used TBC?

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If you're using Trimble in the field, I can't imagine crews not being able to see their linework and symbols right there in the field. Set up the linework and symbol processing in their controllers and then post-process with TBC.

Even if Carlson were better at F2F (it's not, I'd say it and TBC are pretty much equal in that regard), the crews need to be able to see exactly what the office staff will see when they process linework. The efficiency savings on that alone is well worth it.

Where you'll really see the advantage is in the QC/QA workflow - no reloading and reprocessing files, just modify codes or control codes and recompute on the fly, or if you really have to just recompute a single JOB/JXL file.

Process & adjust data, run linework and fix codes and attributes in TBC, then kick out a CSV and a DWG/DXF to whatever drafting software you have to make final edits and put on layouts, title blocks, etc.

The other benefit is that you can run additional attributes and description fields within Trimble, so that there is more information going into whatever drafting software you are using.

Let the analysts do all the QC/QA and adjustments in a single program, and let the drafters just draft in a single program. It's way more efficient.

We've got Trimble Business Center for some of our construction work.?ÿ Those of us in the land surveying department haven't learned to use it very well, but some of us could process the data and adjust traverses.?ÿ The boss has become a big fan of Carlson and wants us to stop using TBC completely.

I just watched a Carlson video and they basically said you need to process the GPS data with the office companion software to the field equipment.

Use TBC for adjustments, Carlson for drafting.

One reason I use TBC for adjustments is because it's integrated with our field equipment.

Carlson is far superior drafting software.

TBC isn't CAD, and doesn't behave like CAD. Which is okay, because TBC does exactly what it's supposed to do. I always told every Trimble Rep every chance I got, if they made a version of TBC that overlayed on top of AutoCAD, and did everything/and operated the way each package did, they would crush all competitors of both.

Let the analysts do all the QC/QA and adjustments in a single program, and let the drafters just draft in a single program. It's way more efficient.

Here's my question.

Why does the boss like Carlson when all the equipment is Trimble?

ANSWER (to all the questions): Most likely, because of the cost.

If your boss, who apparently has no idea what these packages are doing, is pushing for this change, it's about money.

Even if you think I'm wrong, I would probably start looking for another employer.

Most likely, because of the cost.

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If 1 software will do everything you need; why would you want to spend money on 2?

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If your boss, who apparently has no idea what these packages are doing, is pushing for this change, it's about money.

@tommy-young

What you need to do; convince your boss that owning both software's is cost effective. I always liked processing in one software, and finishing the drafting in another; to give to the end user. You can always, easily, go back to original data and figure out what went wrong or show that it was someone else that mucked it up...

I hope everyone had a great weekend! I know I did!

Dougie

And here's another example/approach you can throw at the boss for "cost savings":

Sell/trade-in all your exisitng field vehicles that are gasoline/diesel based motors, and switch to electric vehicles.

And point out to the boss how much money you're saving on fossil fuels while improving their carbon footprint.

And then point out to the boss how many extras you can invoice your clients for all those times your EV's run out of charge on the job, need to be towed to a charging station, and wait 1-8 hours for enough electrons to accumulate to engage their boss brain about the fact that different tools do different things.

Sometimes you need a screwdriver instead of a hammer, but most of the time management just needs a hammer to straighten out their thinking.

There. I fixed it.

It's almost 2023. If the coddling of people, now apparently management, has gotten to the point that you need to walk your boss through those steps, then it seems obvious your suvey department is struggling.

And for god's sake, learn to use the TBC you were given. Some places don't even have the luxury of "companion software" with their hardware.

it seems obvious your suRvey department is struggling.

I wouldn't use the word struggling; if your not improving, your last.?ÿ

There's a lot of assumptions being made here into things I never said or implied.

My survey department is doing just fine, thank you.

Our field equipment is all Trimble.?ÿ We like it.?ÿ Our survey drafting software is all Carlson.?ÿ We like it too.

Here's where the problem comes in.?ÿ We've got Trimble Business Center for some of our construction work.?ÿ Those of us in the land surveying department haven't learned to use it very well, but some of us could process the data and adjust traverses.?ÿ The boss has become a big fan of Carlson and wants us to stop using TBC completely.?ÿ

Here's my question.?ÿ Can Carlson analyze and adjust Trimble data??ÿ I know about SurvNet, but I'm talking more along the lines of throwing out some GPS vectors the way you can with TBC.?ÿ I just watched a Carlson SurvNet video and they basically said you need to process the GPS data with the office companion software to the field equipment.

Years ago I would process my GPS data in TGO, bring the control into SurvNet, and process traverses that way.?ÿ I can still do that with TBC, but I'd just as soon do all the processing with one software if I can.

Thanks in advance for the input.

Im in exactly the same boat, all Trimble field equipment and software but using Carlson for drafting. Iƒ??m relying on TBC for processing and adjustments, thatƒ??s not to say Carlson couldnƒ??t but just that it would add a completely unnecessary layer of potential headaches when the two different programs and formats decide not to play well together. What sounds like the biggest time suck is calling Carlson to complain Trimble wonƒ??t play well or Trimble to complain about Carlsonƒ??s sandbox manners. The point being I have enough challenges without introducing another completely unnecessary source of complexity which equates into nothing but wasted time. The problem we both face is the bean counters have difficulty in accounting for wasted time because itƒ??s difficult to assign a value to it in a budget spreadsheet.?ÿ

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I don't have enough experience with Carlson or with TBC to be able to answer your question authoritatively, but I can tell you that:

1. Carlson's F2f is very workable, and?ÿ

2. Carlson Survey does not resolve static vectors, but?ÿ

2. Access can export raw data that includes the RTK vector data. So if you know that SurvNet can handle vector data you can go that way - if all your GPS work is RTK.

3. Carlson has a separate package that resolves static vectors.?ÿ?ÿ

Overall, I'd say that your bosses proposal is workable if you are not doing static GPS. For that you will need more.

@dougie

?ÿ"R's".?ÿ It's always the R's...

@norman-oklahoma Regarding #2b, that goes against what i saw in the video from Carlson that I watched yesterday, where they said you needed to do do your GPS analysis in the other software.?ÿ I'm not saying your wrong, but that's not what they said.

SurvNet is great, but it's my understanding that you have to bring good GPS data into it.

@rover83 has some very good points that I agree with.?ÿ

they said you needed to do do your GPS analysis in the other software.

By "GPS Analysis" does it mean adjusting vectors or resolving them out of raw satellite data?

I'm looking at this youtube screencap and seeing vector data formatted (almost) identically to what I'm used to seeing in StarNet. Based on this, I'm feeling pretty good about your chances of simultaneously adjusting GPS vectors and total station data in SurvNet.?ÿ ?ÿ

Regarding #2b, that goes against what i saw in the video from Carlson that I watched yesterday, where they said you needed to do do your GPS analysis in the other software.?ÿ I'm not saying your wrong, but that's not what they said.

Unless Carlson has changed things up recently, they're talking about static observations, which must be post-processed against other static observations to yield solved vectors before positions or adjustments can be determined. Solved vectors can be exported from TBC to be used in Carlson.

Real-time (RTK/NRTK/RTX) vectors, on the other hand, are computed in the field and stored by Access within the JOB/JXL files and thus require no additional processing. They can go directly into other adjustment software packages from the JXL.

TBC is for processing survey data, Carlson is for making pretty pictures.?ÿ Let them each do their job.

@wa-id-surveyor?ÿ

Carlson does a lot more than that.

I'll be happy if I never touch anything Trimble again in the remaining 10 or so years left in my career

@tommy-young?ÿ

Yes.?ÿ You process the raw GPS data with Carlson SurveyGNSS and then you can bring the processed vectors into SurvNet.?ÿ There you would perform any Network Adjustments.

I assume this is similar to TBC in that you need to purchase the GPS functionality of the software?