Construction vs. Boundary

During the first 8 years of my surveying career('89-'97) I was doing about 80% boundary. Then for the next 17 years ('97-'14) or so it was mostly topographic mapping, largely for transportation projects. Then a couple years of mixed boundary and construction. Then 4 years ('16-'20) of 80% construction- mostly apartment buildings in downtown Portland and 1 large suburban subdivision.?ÿ 6 months ago I took a job with the city in which I reside. The only thing I'm not doing there is construction staking.?ÿ ?ÿ

This year in Central Florida housing construction is rabid. Builders are selling houses 8-10 months before they are even started. The PLS I sold my company to is slammed. She (the PLS) has had to add a crew and may have to add another, that is, if you can find anyone willing to work and that ain't easy these days.

All is good now but when, not if, the economy sours housing is the first to be hit, and it hits hard. The best thing about housing construction is it's the first to be affected by an economy about to enter a recession. It is a perfect indicator for you to prepare for a massive slowdown that will affect the entire country.

Although bad times may be indicated on the horizon this flag is useful in tending to any investment IRA's etc. to discard those that may tank during the upcoming recession. ?????ÿ

I am not personally active these days... but things are still booming in Northern Baja.

The word on the street is that construction is way up for the last 6 or 8 months, despite the mandated lock-downs.
building materials dominate the streets and highways, mostly commercial construction.

Sales of individual homes to foreigners is way up, and all require a current occupation survey.

Topo of course is required for almost all new construction projects, especially the design-build public infrastructure.

...bur as said above, these peaks and valleys are the norm. The difference here is that the valleys are rather shallow and short compared to the Southwestern US.

First of all I have to correct another thread Posted by: @squirl where he identified himself as a surveyor and called surveying a trade.?ÿ

1.) In my state "Surveyor" is a legal term reserved for a Licensed Land Surveyor, it appears squirl is licensed, therefore not a Surveyor. He is a Senior Survey Technician.

2.) Land Surveying is Professional, not a trade. Carpentry, Plumbing, Mason, Electric are all trades with Union workers.

Construction is changing very fast. Surveyors are now QA/QC for verifications and problem-solving, and consultants.

I'm working on a $680,000,000 new Hospital project, where they canned the first surveyor after a few months. That surveyor was calling anchor bolts wrong when they were not. They literally and figuratively lost control of the project.?ÿ

?ÿAll "Trades" on this project are required to have (use) a robotic total station for their own layout. I'm there to set horizontal and vertical control on each of the 10 floors. Then provide As-Builts, Floor Flatness, Streel Deflections, Steel Plumbness, Verify Anchor bolts, and help identity solve problems where things don't fit. Most of these union workers are using Robotic Total stations for the first time. I consult with all of them. A bit difficult for me at times, since they use different manufactured instruments.

On this site, the instruments include manufacturers from Leica, Topcon, Trimble, Hilti and Sokkia.

?ÿ

To make things more difficult, the entire project is an ever-changing BIM model. Contract plans are mostly cartoons with very few dimensions or no dimensions. All layout is provided from a BIM360 and GLUE360 via the cloud.?ÿ

Posted by: @souperstar17

I was hoping to start a poll, not sure if that feature is available I couldnƒ??t find it if it exists.

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Anyway just out of curiosity what is typical for everyoneƒ??s workload in terms of construction staking, boundary, drone etc...?ÿ

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Iƒ??ll start, summers heavy construction, mostly utility layout. Winters mostly ALTA/Topo work (Cold weather halts construction) I am hoping to get more into the boundary and section work sooner then later!

I do 95+% construction layout (no utilities usually - just stakes for excavation, then pin for footings, then nails on footings for the walls. Then srpr (as built most of you guys call it) in the end.

?ÿ

Housing is crazy here so it has only slowed down in the winter, not stopped the past couple years. It takes longer to do everything in the snow and ice so we never actually run out of construction layout jobs.?ÿ

The other 5 crews do mainly boundary surveys and topos.

Posted by: @leegreen

First of all I have to correct another thread Posted by: @squirl where he identified himself as a surveyor and called surveying a trade.?ÿ

1.) In my state "Surveyor" is a legal term reserved for a Licensed Land Surveyor, it appears squirl is licensed, therefore not a Surveyor. He is a Senior Survey Technician.

2.) Land Surveying is Professional, not a trade. Carpentry, Plumbing, Mason, Electric are all trades with Union workers.

Construction is changing very fast. Surveyors are now QA/QC for verifications and problem-solving, and consultants.

I'm working on a $680,000,000 new Hospital project, where they canned the first surveyor after a few months. That surveyor was calling anchor bolts wrong when they were not. They literally and figuratively lost control of the project.?ÿ

?ÿAll "Trades" on this project are required to have (use) a robotic total station for their own layout. I'm there to set horizontal and vertical control on each of the 10 floors. Then provide As-Builts, Floor Flatness, Streel Deflections, Steel Plumbness, Verify Anchor bolts, and help identity solve problems where things don't fit. Most of these union workers are using Robotic Total stations for the first time. I consult with all of them. A bit difficult for me at times, since they use different manufactured instruments.

On this site, the instruments include manufacturers from Leica, Topcon, Trimble, Hilti and Sokkia.

?ÿ

To make things more difficult, the entire project is an ever-changing BIM model. Contract plans are mostly cartoons with very few dimensions or no dimensions. All layout is provided from a BIM360 and GLUE360 via the cloud.?ÿ

Everytime some random person asks "so you're a surveyor?" I have to clarify that my boss is the surveyor, we are field technicians. Often they just get confused.?ÿ

@350rocketmike

I used to think the same way. Until NY State investigated me, for someone else naming me as a surveyor prior to me being licensed.?ÿ

@leegreen

I'm curious how that happened? Did they figure it out quickly enough?

1977-1988 strictly heavy construction staking for large contractor with 3-5 man crews, earthwork and paving on interstates, many miles of new 4 lanes, sitework, coal mines (strip), limestone quarries.?ÿ Licensed in 1988, started own business, began probably 50% construction and 50% property.?ÿ Mid 90's lots of large farms and lakefront subdivision design and stakeout in local area.?ÿ 2000-now?ÿ 99% construction layout for same large contractor, same amount of work or more, one man operation with robot and then GPS, started using machine control.?ÿ 2 of us now, 90% of my time is building 3d machine control models for earthwork and paving at my home office, very little staking necessary except for concrete and bridge work.

@flga-2-2

Housing construction is certainly taking off out here in Rocket City!

Posted by: @leegreen

To make things more difficult, the entire project is an ever-changing BIM model.

That must be tough to deal with from a communication standpoint. I was unaware that Hilti made total stations. In a perfect world, your site surveyors would all be using the same brands; it would make your life easier.

@field-dog

Rocket City and Seminole Woods are 2 of several platted(?) subdivisions I have declined to provide building construction Surveying services in after one visit to the site. They should use either of those plats in all Surveying Classes as an example of gross negligence and gross incompetence.?ÿ

In Seminole Woods nothing closes and almost every lot corner has at least 5 iron rods within a 10' diameter all labeled as "THE" true corner. The curve table must have been for a different plat. The Schonstedt, even when it's off, starts blaring away as soon as you enter the subdivided catastrophe from surveyors hell.

Rocket City is not nearly as bad as Seminole Woods but it did have some centerline control issues. Another place to be careful in is Poinciana in Osceola County there are several houses built in the wrong block by a Surveyor from Intercession City as well as several on the wrong lot.

So, if you are in business for a profit I suggest you look closely at the aforementioned sites prior to an actual contractual agreement for your services. Good luck! ?????ÿ

Posted by: @peter-ehlert

The difference here is that the valleys are rather shallow and short compared to the Southwestern US.

Same here. The lows are a good chance for a breather until all hell breaks loose again.

We never actually stop, just slow down by about 50%-60% for a month or two. ?????ÿ

My state(Maine)'s board standards say:

"A licensee shall undertake assignments only when qualified by education or experience in the specific technical fields of surveying involved."

That's not me as regards construction staking. And this dog is too old to learn new tricks. So I don't take on construction staking. I'll occasionally stake a "building envelope" based on zoning setbacks, etc.

@leegreen

Why, exactly, is it YOUR problem what someone else identified you as?

@leegreen

According to labor agreements around here...surveyors are a trade.

The interaction of the union/trade portion of the world (which may or may not have a PLS involved) with the private world gets complex. Prevailing wage, Davis Bacon, and the ever present labor agreements (at least around here) make everything even more complex. Then you have a provision in the contract that demands a PLS for certain tasks and while I know that there are PLS's down at the hall, I am pretty sure they are hard to find.

Answer...surveyors are both trade and profession.?ÿ

@dmyhill

I don't know any PLS's who care if field personnel call themselves, surveyors

When it's important to differentiate, you usually say, licensed or professional surveyor

Posted by: @dmyhill

It's your problem when the board wants to know if you gave the other party the idea or failed to correct them upon hearing they had called you that.

Posted by: @dmyhill

A case might be made (I'm not sure it would fly) that construction layout is a highly skilled trade but requires no judgment of uncertain evidence, whereas boundary usually requires professional judgment because the evidence often isn't cut and dried.

That standard doesn't match the way it is done in many jurisdictions, and also for other professions.?ÿ A pharmacy is a highly skilled occupation, but rarely requires judgments of uncertain evidence, despite usually being classified as a profession.