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Bureaucrats Need Math Lessons

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not-my-real-name
(@not-my-real-name)
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We have a law in our jurisdiction that allows a person to operate a small farm on two acres of land. Our client's deed calculates to be 1.999985 acres by the math wizards of the city he applied to for a permit. It amounts to a denial of permission.

I plan to write to the city and ask them to reconsider before sending the client's money for a survey. Can you offer any zingers that will make them feel foolish enough to concede?

It is about 0.6 square feet. How ridiculous. He just wants to grow flowers.

Historic boundaries and conservation efforts.

 
Posted : June 24, 2024 5:13 am
(@chris-bouffard)
Posts: 1455
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Ask them to measure it to that many decimal places, the obvious intent was for a 2 acre lot. What is the noted area on the tax map?

 
Posted : June 24, 2024 5:31 am
(@bstrand)
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More or less is your friend.

 
Posted : June 24, 2024 7:21 am
Norman_Oklahoma
(@norman-oklahoma)
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He needs a permit to farm? It's not likely that this agency is capable of reasoning.

 
Posted : June 24, 2024 8:15 am
GaryG
(@gary_g)
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See previous discussion here:

https://rpls.com/forums/discussion/reporting-acreage/

 
Posted : June 24, 2024 8:18 am

not-my-real-name
(@not-my-real-name)
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Norman_Oklahoma

It's called the "Right to Farm" law. It's a state law (Chapter 40A Section 3 of Massachusetts) allows farms on land two acres or more. I seem to think the old minimum parcel sixe was five acres. The client made an application to the city where he lives, but the land he wants to farm is vacant.

Historic boundaries and conservation efforts.

 
Posted : June 24, 2024 8:38 am
MightyMoe
(@mightymoe)
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Rounds to 2.0000

That should do it in anyone's big book of regulations.

However, there is another principle involved. If the parcel was established as 2 acres legally, especially if it was approved by the county/city then it's legally 2 acres and no amount of math can change it. If the city or county signed the plat and accepted the parcel as a 2 acre parcel it's a 2 acre parcel for legal/regulation purposes. If it wasn't approved by the city/county but it was filed with that acreage it's still legally a 2 acre parcel and should be recognized as such.

I've actually won that argument using patented acreages to overcome zoning regulations. 80 acres patented remain 80 acres even if the parcel measures 79.85 acres.

 
Posted : June 24, 2024 10:53 pm
peter-lothian
(@peter-lothian)
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The law is written to zero decimal places. If the legislature intended the cutoff to be to 6 decimal places, they would have written it as such. Tell Math Whiz to round his calculation to zero decimals to match the legislative intent. Or get your client's attorney to do so.

 
Posted : June 25, 2024 2:15 am
Norman_Oklahoma
(@norman-oklahoma)
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"It’s called the “Right to Farm” law. It’s a state law ...."

For the record, I never doubted you that the permit was necessary. I was merely expressing my astonishment.

 
Posted : June 25, 2024 4:22 am
OleManRiver
(@olemanriver)
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Just locate to the outside center of all pins a hair. What’s a hundredth here or there . It is sad that we have to go through so much red tape to do anything on the land we have purchased for sure. Here we have to meet certain requirements as well for Land Use and to state it’s a farm. Paperwork paperwork.

 
Posted : June 25, 2024 5:39 am

mathteacher
(@mathteacher)
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Point out the significant digits in the city's result. Then claim that they're discriminating against the client because he's (insert best category here.)

 
Posted : June 26, 2024 2:34 am
peter-lothian
(@peter-lothian)
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For the record, I never doubted you that the permit was necessary. I was merely expressing my astonishment.

The permit is only required in zoning districts where farming is not allowed unconditionally, such as Business or Commercial districts - one can get a permit to farm the land as long as they meet the statute's requirements. The law also says that the towns cannot require a Special Permit for farming in those districts. A Special Permit would be subject to discretionary approval by the Planning Board or other authority.

 
Posted : June 26, 2024 2:55 am
Norman_Oklahoma
(@norman-oklahoma)
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Is a permit also required to just let the property lay open, undeveloped, and disused? Which would you prefer in your neighborhood, a feild that is kept up with a planted crop or a vacant, overgrown lot?

 
Posted : June 26, 2024 3:08 am
(@chris-bouffard)
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If the property is not zoned agricultural (at least in NJ) farming it would require a change of use variance under the zoning laws. It would also affect the property taxes as farmlands are taxed at lower rates than other uses.

 
Posted : June 26, 2024 3:25 am
Norman_Oklahoma
(@norman-oklahoma)
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I can understand ordinances against keeping livestock in a non-agricultural area, and noise ordinances, etc., and I understand that property is taxed in accordance with its zoning and not its actual use. But needing a permit to put in a crop - of flowers no less - seems over the top. To me.

 
Posted : June 26, 2024 5:20 am

peter-lothian
(@peter-lothian)
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The permit is only needed to demonstrate compliance with the statutory requirements to allow farming in a non-farm zoned district. It's a simple "does this farm pass the test" sort of permit. The only reason not-my-real-name's client got rejected is because some dingbat thinks that 0.0001 acre below 2 acres fails the requirement. Remember, this law is a "right to farm" provision that encourages farming where it might otherwise not be happening.

As to whether I would prefer a 2 acre fallow lot vs. something planted - eh, it's not my land. The bunny rabbits and deer would certainly be happier with fallow. The real question is, would I prefer the land be farmed or see an office building put up?

 
Posted : June 26, 2024 5:40 am
MightyMoe
(@mightymoe)
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If the 2 acres is square shifting one line .002' would fix it.

They've lost their minds

 
Posted : June 26, 2024 5:47 am
(@chris-bouffard)
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I own property in a rural farmland community is the largest township (area wise and the largest county in NJ). That being said, our town supports these types of efforts and the application would breeze through, without a second thought, unless it was being contested by adjoining owners.

Most of the towns in our area have consulting municipal engineers that almost never run these things by their licensed surveyor because they bill the applicant by the hour to review the application and write ridiculously long review letters for something as simple as constructing a movable shed that is too close to a property line by ordinance.

I worked in municipal engineering for 16 years and would never think to go past a single decimal place to round up to the nearest acre, if I were reviewing the application. Others are not so ethical and are only interested in getting their billable time in to soak the applicant's escrow.

 
Posted : June 26, 2024 7:01 am
(@dan-dunn)
Posts: 366
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I'm wondering what the closure error is in the deed? Like MightyMoe said "shifting one line .002′ would fix it."

Another case of a Reviewer not having any knowledge of measurement error and/or significant digits.

 
Posted : June 26, 2024 11:31 pm
Norman_Oklahoma
(@norman-oklahoma)
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"If the 2 acres is square shifting one line .002′ would fix it."<div>


A person could argue that dimensions expressed to the nearest hundredth implies that the exact dimension may be as much as 0.00499' greater. Assume so and recompute.

</div>

 
Posted : June 27, 2024 2:44 am