I am working on recovering/tying in/computing a transformation for a triangulation network done in the late 1930's for the Corps of Engineers at a local reservoir project. No field notes, no obs, just a map with descriptions and adjusted coordinates (NAD27 SPC). The network began with two first order triangulation stations and then proceeded east with a chain of triangles to cover the entire reservoir area. The two first order stations were set in 1895 by USGS (third order), and later made into first order by occupations by USCGS around 1935. They do not have published NAD83 (2011) coordinates because they were never GPS'd in the NSRS. In 2007 I recovered those two stations (both wide open on bare hilltops), and tied them in, as well as two stations at the other end of the chain. Now they want four more tied in, total of 8 (out of 24). Purpose is to compute transformation parameters from NAD27 to NAD83 (2011) for all of the control, sed ranges, and property corners around the project.
We went to occupy one of them today, the lady at a house at the bottom of the hill said go ahead. My guy was setup on the mon when a guy comes up on a quad. He said his boss wanted to talk to him. They guy told him that the last time a surveyor was there, supposedly for "Allegheny County Airport", which is at least 50 miles away (and of course has PACS and SACS), the surveyor paid him $5000 to occupy the station. Basically we told him to !@#$-off, and left. I would be willing to bet that in this era of HARN/CORS/VRS, the station is pretty much worthless EXCEPT for what I wanted to do with it, but I already occupied it so no big deal. But, the gall of some people.
I did pay $150 once to occupy a triangulation station in the Mississippi River Delta south of New Orleans, but that was in 1986 before CORS or HARN or VRS, and it was in the middle of a pig wallow pit filled with pig excrement. Apparently he knew it was the only occupiable/recoverable station for miles around, and the oil patch people willingly paid him, or else he knew a gullible Yankee when he saw one. .
John Hamilton, post: 390079, member: 640 wrote: .... the surveyor paid him $5000 to occupy the station.....
This is the same state where surveys cost $85? Oklahomans can be great jokers.
No, it was in PA. Not a good day today anywhere
Yeah, I have had a couple of folks try to tell me that to enter their place to search for a tri station would cost $$. I would give them the address from the cap to write to and request their check from the NGS. Never had a tri station important enough I'd pay to occupy it. On a side note, I was in a bit of a rush yesterday, wanted to hit a "lost" tri station in the neighborhood, but wanted to look up the datasheet. Being in a hurry, I typed typed in NGS TRI STA and the very odd name of the station. Damn spell check changed every word!!
I believe there is one in Rooster McConaughey's (Mathew's brother) backyard, but I haven't had a reason to ask to occupy it yet.
There is a triangulation station at camp David. I tried to occupy it once and only once after being accosted by two Humvees full of Marines. Of course the description didn't say that, and there was a sign by the road saying keep out, naval reservation, but that never stopped me before
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Assuming that you are in PA - too bad there isn't a Right of Entry/Surveyor's Trespass Statute like there are in 27+ States.
The 2006 NSPS ROE Committee Report at http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/nsps.site-ym.com/resource/resmgr/Resources/RIGHT_OF_ENTRY_CMT_REPORT_10.pdf
details the laws in place 10 years ago - I wonder if more states have adopted ROE statutes.
JKinAK, post: 390113, member: 7219 wrote: Assuming that you are in PA - too bad there isn't a Right of Entry/Surveyor's Trespass Statute like there are in 27+ States.
The 2006 NSPS ROE Committee Report at http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/nsps.site-ym.com/resource/resmgr/Resources/RIGHT_OF_ENTRY_CMT_REPORT_10.pdf
details the laws in place 10 years ago - I wonder if more states have adopted ROE statutes.
Had a Canadian county deputy called on us once for trespassing...... he was arrogant and verry cross with us and told us he didnt care what we say the the law is, we're on private property and if didnt leave we would be arrested. Rather than argue and become the next rodney king we promptly left the property and called the sheriff's department. We asked to speak to a supervisor and when we explain what we were doing and our rights to entry he promptly sent the deputy back out to escort back on to the subject property...... lol needless to say the deputy came back with a different attitude and ate crow!
Right of entry is prety darn useful, but it stil helps to talk to the land owners. We encourage them to call the sherif.. it saves us a phone call. We also inform them that the monuments are government property, with fines for intentional damage and.destruction. There is a monument in sw missouri that sits on top of a hill with a beautiful view. Which is probably why someone put their house 30ft from it. Luckily the first surveyors to door knock explained everything and now there is a sign that reads something like " surveyors don't need permission, go ahead and use the monument". Very cool, very rare.lol
Right of Entry is a tough nut in Louisiana. Especially for CORP work and especially south of New Orleans on the East bank. Landowners there were always opposed to Mississippi River Gulf Outlet and the problems associated with it. I guess they were right because the CORP closed/abandoned the MRGO after Katrina. The storm surge devasted the area.
I have worked years of CORP projects and many were suspended or put on the back burner because landowners refused right of entry.
I don't think that I would charge a surveyor for access to a tri-mark but maybe I would charge a c-note for parking. ; )
I did a lot of work in southern Florida in the early 90's doing control work. Gated communities were always a problem. We were working for the county, so getting a sheriff escort in past recalcitrant gate guards was fairly easy to do. Always wished we had that in PA. But, working on turnpike projects and dot work does get us right of entry.
Here we would just whip out the Alaska Statutory law that allows Surveyor's right of entry to control monuments with prior notification. Proof of notification is best done in writing.
I gave an old fellow a cold Coca Cola to show me a corner one time, does that count?
Andy
We were looking for control recently using a metal detector and at one location after a bit of pot-holing and false positives had unearthed and collected quite a few old coins totaling about 50 cents, but no control. Old Matey came out of the adjacent house and asked what we were doing, we told him and showed the results, then he asked for "his" coins back.
Prodigal Son, post: 390116, member: 12074 wrote: Had a Canadian county deputy called on us once for trespassing...... he was arrogant and verry cross with us and told us he didnt care what we say the the law is, we're on private property and if didnt leave we would be arrested. Rather than argue and become the next rodney king we promptly left the property and called the sheriff's department. We asked to speak to a supervisor and when we explain what we were doing and our rights to entry he promptly sent the deputy back out to escort back on to the subject property...... lol needless to say the deputy came back with a different attitude and ate crow!
I was going to call bull crap with your story, as Canada doesn't have county deputies, and a sheriff in Canada is tasked with prisoner transport only....... Then it occurred to me..... You weren't talking about the country of Canada, but a USA county.
I am certain that must cause plenty of confusion.
summerprophet, post: 390394, member: 8874 wrote: You weren't talking about the country of Canada, but a USA county
I dunno about him, but when I tell folks I am working "on the Canadian", meaning the river, or "working near Canadian" meaning the town, I am meaning in Texas, but almost everyone when they first hear it, assumes I am leaving the USA to go work in the Great White North. It has caused a bit of funny looks when I tell them it takes about 6 hours to drive there...
That's what I enjoy about town names and other placenames. They were portable. Sometimes great distances.
In a long days drive I could be in Westphalia, Trent, Odense, Havana, Cuba, Peru, Denmark, St. Paul, Minneapolis, Arcadia, Detroit, Manhattan, Lansing, Miami, Austin, Erie, Hamilton, Madison, Hartford, Brussels, Columbus, Riverton, Elgin, Frankfort, Burlington, Geneva, Richmond, Abilene, Urbana, Nevada, Altoona, Altamont, Buffalo and Climax.
Without leaving the county where I grew up I could have visited Peoria, New York, Orlando, Selma, Austin, Lucerne, Bethlehem, Harvard, Genoa, and Warsaw, Some of them nowadays you wouldn't know there had been a town there, though, without the historical map.
Ah yes, without leaving the confines of Texas I can travel the world. Paris, Athens, Wales, etc, or see the seasons with Winters, Spring, or Big Spring, I can see Bigfoot, or be Happy, or I can even go see the alien life forms in Austin (I just couldn't stop myself!)
John. Birner, post: 390124, member: 12084 wrote: Right of entry is prety darn useful, but it stil helps to talk to the land owners. We encourage them to call the sherif.. it saves us a phone call. We also inform them that the monuments are government property, with fines for intentional damage and.destruction. There is a monument in sw missouri that sits on top of a hill with a beautiful view. Which is probably why someone put their house 30ft from it. Luckily the first surveyors to door knock explained everything and now there is a sign that reads something like " surveyors don't need permission, go ahead and use the monument". Very cool, very rare.lol
I wish you'd post a pic of that!!! That's awesome! Bring that landowner some donuts, or something nice... just to say thanks for the respect!!