Preparing descriptions textbook question

Wattles is what I remember being asked to buy when I was at ISU but I don't recall using it in any courses.

There was a "technical writing" class requirement in the degree program and I remember looking forward to that because I thought they'd teach us some things about writing proposals, contracts, descriptions, etc.  When I got into the class the teacher wasted most of the semester showing us how to write a generic office memo in Word.  I remember asking her one day if we'd learn how to write the things above and she looked at me like I had 3 heads and said "No, your employer teaches you that".  That class ended up being one of the bigger wastes of money in my college experience.

TAMUCC 2018-2020: Did not have a course specifically on writing legal descriptions, but it was briefly covered in a couple of courses. Mainly used the relevant chapters of Elementary Surveying by Ghilani and Wolf, but also used Decisions, Wattles, Brown's, and Clark.

On Wattles, I have Land Survey Descriptions (10th Edition), but a PS Practice Exam references Writing Legal Descriptions in Conjunction with Survey Boundary Control. I believe these are the same book. It looks like they may have renamed the book to Land Survey Descriptions as part of a prior edition. Anyone know if that's the case?

Wattles and Brown. One issue is what is even available. Wattles went walking somewhere from my office. Finding another copy wasn't easy. It's not Lord or the Rings.

I've got books you won't want, too big, too expensive, others are too hard to find. 

The scarcity of Wattles yellow book tells me that it is not being used in the classroom. Nevertheless, I have always considered it to be the "bible" of the subject.

Posted by: @norman-oklahoma

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The scarcity of Wattles yellow book tells me that it is not being used in the classroom. Nevertheless, I have always considered it to be the "bible" of the subject.

I'm with you, it would make a great classroom book for this purpose. It's not a huge reference, it gets to the point, it's very helpful, the language is understandable unlike many legal tomes. Finding it in bulk,,,,,,not so sure. Amazon has one for $75, very used, I don't know how many others there may be.

Microsoft Word - CATALOG.doc

The above link is to a "catalog" of Wattles Publications. I don't know how old this is or if there is anyone still answering the listed email. If you are nervous about clicking the link then google "Wattles Writing Legal Descriptions" and you will soon find yourself an old RPLS.com thread.

When I taught Legal Aspects of Land Surveying in college I used Land Survey Descriptions by Wattles. Far as I'm concerned it is THE book. I met him several times -  he and his wife were as nice as could be.

I just bought a bunch of new copies last year for new staff. 

email me and I’ll search later at my office for his contact information. 

Larry Stevens 

I bought a half dozen new copies of Wattles' "Writing Legal Descriptions" at the beginning of the year for $50 a piece.  He has other out-of-print land surveying books, too.  A Wattles Exercise booklet.

Contact:  [email protected]

Telephone:  714-832-5711

Good luck!

Larry

So, life took over for a few months and I haven't been back to check this thread. Thank you all for the replies.

I have a decent collection of the Wattles family books on descriptions, but will probably continue to snap up various printings until I die.. lol That link to the Wattles collection will probably eat a good chunk of my disposable income this year.

There is another popular text out west "Advanced land descriptions" by Cuomo. A must have for some western states. I find it interesting that Wattles still has the market cornered after all these years.

Thanks again, Tom

Here is a very concise book on description writing, published by the state society in Minnesota--

https://www.mnsurveyor.com/store/viewproduct.aspx?id=2630469

It's a re-write of a book by Fant, Freeman, and Madson, originally published in the 1970s. Jesse Fant was a professor at the University of Minnesota, and I believe he was licensed in Kentucky at one time. Freeman and Madson were county surveyors in Minnesota. The re-write was done by a committee which included some colleagues of mine.

$30 plus shipping, 95 pages. About half the book discusses general principles of description writing, and the remainder consists of description examples, many of them quite complex.

What about writing a short paragraph that simply refers to the survey map? I really don't see why a surveyor should be responsible for writing a 'legal' description anyway. After all, why do attorneys a favor when they continually regurgitate  vague descriptions and archaic phrases in deed conveyances that obviously need to be surveyed. For an example, what does 'along the brook to an oak tree' mean on forested land?

Also I'm not a big fan of the language in these so-called legal descriptions. Overuse of vague and archaic phrases like 'thence running' or 'turning and running' just seems to me that they are getting paid by the word. Attorneys would better serve their clients in conveyances by strongly recommending that a survey be done rather than copy from old deeds without updating them.  

@not-my-real-name And let us not forget: to a point...to a point...to a point (as Wattles pointed out, the end of a line is always a point).

Reference to a map, to be effective in the long term, requires that the map be recorded.

I second Bruce's comment about the use of "to a point". If you habitually use that phrase, please stop.   

@norman-oklahoma 

Thank you.

I do always record the map. The cost is only slightly more than one hundred dollars.

In our jurisdiction a map my be recorded without a planner's review as long as it does not create any new lines.

Subdivisions do require a review by the planner before being recorded.

Too often: THENCE on a bearing of N90°00’00”E a distance of 123.45 feet to a point;

Me: THENCE East 123.45 feet;

It seems for an existing parcel, lawyers have a reluctance to use an equivalent description rather than the exact prior descriptipn, even if the new one is clearer, as it might be required in some future time to prove the equivalence.

For a new parcel, the surveyor can almost certainly write the best description, thereby serving the future public good.

@bruce-small  Don't you worry that someone may interpret East as Easterly, causing confusion?

@bill93  Not in the slightest. Wattles covered this subject quite well.