Hello everyone,
I am doing layout for a pump station and there is a note on the plans that says "Property lines as shown on this map are shown in their approximate location based on tax map and/or gis information available at the time, and are not intended to represent actual boundary locations". The plans show the entire town owned parcel that the pump station is going on as being paved and I have been asked to stake the corners of the asphalt. How can I do this and limit my liability? Do I tell them they need it surveyed? This doesn't seem right.
Gregg
Wait, they want you to stake the pavement and the pavement is going to fill up the entire parcel??ÿ Yeah, I wouldn't touch that with a 10-foot pole.?ÿ Tell them you won't stake anything until they have a boundary survey done.
OMG, I'd fire my client about then if they don't pay me (and pay me a lot) to fix everything (they probably need a re-design which would be engineering), and I would think long and hard if I even wanted to do that. It would have to be a really good client for me to stick around. Not a one-off guy.?ÿ
A possible alternative is to get permission from the adjoiiners to pave beyond the property limits. Something in writing would do - wouldn't necessarily need to be an easement.
But still best to survey the boundary.?ÿ
It's not unreasonable to trim costs in the design phase and push them to the construction phase. A lot of projects never get past design. And design phase costs are usually coming out of the developers pocket, while the construction phase is financed. Nevertheless, certain things still need to get done before things are cast in concrete.
Yes, absolutely notify them. Also find out who placed the property line on the drawing and notify the board. Likely this was done by the Engineer. A property line can only be shown by a licensed Surveyor in NY. Anytime the property line is shown on a map, it can and will be used by someone for layout or other purposes.?ÿ No matter how many notes are added on maps to try reason why a survey wasn't performed.
@norman-oklahoma, ?ÿAnd the writing would be done by the client.
It says it isn't a property line.?ÿ It's a GIS line, and if the county or city can show it on their web site, why can't it be shown on the drawing with that label?
It is deceptive to the general public. Whom will see only one thing, a line in proximity to the boundary and therefore use it as such.
Cause they did design using it and drew up plans using it, and this is a gas station, think of all the utility connections, sewer lines (MH's probably taken off the GIS) the setback rules, parking restrictions, lighting and on an on. Not cool at all. Either you take it on as a field design that you do on your own (there are so many codes that can be violated), or you turn it back to the client to get a professional design.
We've done lots of these, I've never had one like that. A set of plans based on GIS lines?
Powwow with client is in order. Explain GIS = Get it Surveyed. Pay now or pay much more later.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
Oh, I'm not arguing that it is adequate to build from.?ÿ Just that as an initial planning tool I don't see that it takes a surveyor to draw on a GIS map.
To clarify a few things, this is a pump station and force main project for a town. There was a topographic survey but obviously no boundary. Other portions of the project were along roads, railroads or an existing pump station. The other areas were either in existing utility corridors or in the same general area and size compared to the existing pump station.?ÿ
I was hoping ithat I could send an email to the contractor stating the issues and recommended actions. I would also tell them to inform the owner and make it clear that I'm working off of the cad file and con docs to do the layout and no boundary work has been done by me. Would that get me off the hook for liability? Would it be unprofessional to do the work knowing there could be an issue or will sending the email cover me there too?
Gregg
I do not think that the email relieves you of your lability, possibly increasing it.?ÿ You would be proceeding at your own risk after disclosing the facts as to what could go wrong.
Ed
To me, things like this in any profession have to do with one's appetite for risk. It's not certain that a problem will arise, but if one does, what might that problem be and how costly might rectifying it be? Are those costs within your capability to absorb? What about 5 times those costs?
I've always been risk-averse, having spent my early years in the insurance industry. There, we use underwriting to eliminate risks (physical exams for life insurance, driving records for car insurance, etc.)
The best underwriting here would seem to be a boundary survey. I suspect that letters will not be defensible for a couple of reasons. The as-built may not fit the letter or the letter may not fully describe the situation.
Again, though, it all depends on your appetite for risk.
Proceeding if you get a response telling you to go ahead is debatable. Proceeding in absence of that direction where the client acknowledges responsibility is out of the question.
Explain to your client his request cannot be accomplished correctly without a boundary survey. (That you can provide)
Otherwise you are placing yourself in a liability prone position. ?????ÿ
Add a big booster, for additional liabilities. 10k or more.
Then, DO THE UNDERLYING SURVEY. To mitigate the responsibility.
Put the difference in your pocket.
If they complain, tell them shortcuts are "just like that".
🙂
N
Got it, I stake out pumps also, normally the boundary isn't even close to the pump so GIS would be fine for that. Also if it's something like a natural gas compressor (pump) those are often taken care of using Surface Use Agreements that cover multiple landowners.
So is this a Gas pump, water pump?
I was thinking gas station, not a possible remote pumping station, those often don't have a formal survey and simply sit well inside a landowners property so don't require tight ALTA like surveys. Heck I laid out one a few weeks ago, there wasn't a thought about the property ownership. Nearest property line was 400' west. GIS is fine for those, except there are GIS lines that are way out, need to be careful of those you don't want to site an expensive pump on the wrong owner.?ÿ