Clear case of needing to do a boundary survey to do exactly what they are asking you to do.?ÿ Even if we are talking about a square 100 feet by 100 feet sitting near the center of a quarter section of land.?ÿ They want to pave all that they own, as I interpret the request.?ÿ The surveyor cannot set the limits of the asphalt being put down without a boundary survey.?ÿ Of course, if the neighbor doesn't really care about having asphalt on their property they could pave a 500-foot radius circle around the pump location.?ÿ The cost of the survey would be a tiny fraction of the cost of the asphalt, though.
Chiming in as a civil drafter,
I had a project designing a river access trail down a steep slope, and our surveyor was busy on other projects, so I grabbed some LIDAR data for the EG surface and placed the county's GIS parcel lines and kept my design 20' away from their line (seemed reasonable to me at the time). After much time of me balancing cuts and fills and drafting trail and switchback cribbing details, our surveyor finally was able to go out to the site.
Turns out that the GIS line was 50' off (to our side- of course), causing a complete re-de$ign of the project. It is now a very steep staircase.
Treat GIS property lines as if they were a cartoon depiction of the actual lines, generally the right shape and somewhere near the right place, but never to be trusted and always to be verified by survey.
If you stake something to be built on my property without my permission, I do believe I will win both in court and with your board. This is regardless of whatever understandings you may have with others. This is the position all of your adjoiners will be able to take if pavement is placed on their property.
I wouldn't even contemplate staking any kind of improvement if I wasn't sure whose land it was on. An email from your client may help in defending yourself against your client when things go bad, but it certainly won't do anything to shelter you from the angry neighbors.?ÿ
Do your state minimum standards even allow you to do something like this??ÿ
If in Idaho I see two problems.
Planning requires a PLS to search for monuments at all corners of record and any published control. The Engineer stamping tge plans has to show the monuments or they are subject to disciplne.
The second issue is the staking. Since it is tied to the boundary, a PLS has to do the staking. The PLS must meet the laws, rules and standard of care. That means a boundary, probably including a record of survey.
Nothing wrong with staking it, but the boundary better get done first. Don't forget to get paid...
Thanks everyone. I'm not doing the work without knowing where the boundaries are. They originally wanted me to recover control and set a few benchmarks so I'm going to just provide them with the control if they don't agree to paying for the boundary. I already took care of the control part but that have also had me do some layout in other areas. The areas that I worked in were far less risky.
Gregg
Prime example of why we very rarely stake design from others.?ÿ Too many variables.?ÿ Sounds like a classic case of the designer not being aware of what they are actually designing.
?ÿ
Lets just say you did lay out the edges of the proposed pavement. Things get built, paving is complete etc. Abutter is angry thinks pavement is on his property. Hires surveyor. Pavement is indeed on his property.
Now all liability falls on the entity contracted to do the construction layout. Not sure I can agree with that.
Now if you were contracted to layout said pavement and be sure non of it is encroaching. Now we have a problem.
Lets just say you did lay out the edges of the proposed pavement. Things get built, paving is complete etc. Abutter is angry thinks pavement is on his property. Hires surveyor. Pavement is indeed on his property.
Now all liability falls on the entity contracted to do the construction layout. Not sure I can agree with that.
Now if you were contracted to layout said pavement and be sure non of it is encroaching. Now we have a problem.
In a situation like that the contractor or surveyor might have a case for estoppel??ÿ But the whole point of having the boundary established first is to avoid going down that rabbit hole of drama.
The funny thing about laying things out 'in other places' is, much of the project has to lay out as designed. If you build part of it, you may find yourself locked in (horizontally and vertically) for the remainder.
I wouldn't stake so much as a utility conduit until the boundary was done...
@thebionicman Agreed,?ÿ but in this case it's an entirely different pump station several miles away and it's already half done.
I've encountered similar situations.?ÿ I place no stock in tax maps.?ÿ Pull a few deeds, scare up a couple of corners, and then compare risk to value.?ÿ?ÿ
I'll accept risk if there's a good reason to do so.?ÿ Other things to consider are the price of the surrounding land and the age of the pump station (if it's a rehab project).?ÿ I wouldn't sweat it if it's a replacement of an old pump station surrounded by inexpensive land.?ÿ If this particular contractor is a good client, get permission to bill a few extra hours to investigate the boundary to your level of comfort. If it's a one and done anywhere near expensive real estate, I wouldn't touch it.
?ÿ
I have found it difficult early in my career to say ??no?. ?ÿI recently said ??no, thank you? on a similar project. ?ÿI suspect this will get easier as I get older and more experienced. ?ÿCurrent workload helped too.?ÿ
@brad-ott I have the same problem and it does seem to be getting easier.
Now if you were contracted to layout said pavement and be sure non of it is encroaching. Now we have a problem.
I agree, there is quite a distention between being hired to set top of rock hubs at 10+00, 20'RT and provide top of rock hubs on the property line.?ÿ Staked per the plan, period.?ÿ The responsibility lies with the designer, they can't kick the can downhill and avoid responsibility.
@wa-id-surveyor?ÿ Would that really be a valid defense in court though?
@bstrand I would never put myself in that situation, but why wouldn't it.?ÿ If you were hired by the contractor to stake edge of asphalt per the plans (a nice clean contract with the contractor is essential here) and the plans say edge of asphalt at 10+00, 20'RT, that's where you stake it.
The burden belongs on the designer/owner, they can't kick that can downhill.
@wa-id-surveyor If you were an employee of the contractor and you did lay out per the plans, then your position would carry more weight. When a Professional Land Surveyor lays it out, even if per the math on the plans, and it is outside of the property boundaries, I don't believe he can shed that liability quite as easily. Especially in the case of the original poster, where he recognizes there very well could be an issue. Pretending it is someone else's liability and forging full steam ahead anyway is likely to bite one in the butt.
Man....you guys are a bunch of killjoy....
How are lawyers and insurance companies and incompetent planners supposed to make money and get ahead in life....
Jeeeeesh...?ÿ ??? ???? ?????ÿ