Hardpacked County Road

Posted by: @andy-nold

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And there's usually at least one jackass in the crowd that has to bray about something.

Fourm or Field, doesn't matter.

I bought one of these things a couple weeks ago and it works great:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MV0ZOYE?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

But... I used it in a super gnarly gravel county road last week and it kinda made me wish I had a hammer drill instead.  I need a hammer drill for doing copper plugs anyway but if I can dig with it too then that's a double win.

The Dewalt is awesome for that. And for setting monuments in hard ground, it's one of our best tools. 

"Hardpacked".............is there any other kind of county road.  Nearly all county roads here are crushed limestone.  If the rock is too big, it is like driving on marbles.  If it is too small, it drives nice but turns to dust far too soon.  Just right, it's like digging into a concrete slab.  We have an Amish community and their steel wheeled farm equipment grinds the road to powder rather quickly.

Posted by: @mightymoe

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The Dewalt is awesome for that. And for setting monuments in hard ground, it's one of our best tools. 

Thinking back to my spud bar days trying to break through a frozen hard packed gravel road, I'd kiss the tuchus of the man that invented that rotohammer. 

Posted by: @williwaw

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Posted by: @mightymoe

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The Dewalt is awesome for that. And for setting monuments in hard ground, it's one of our best tools. 

Thinking back to my spud bar days trying to break through a frozen hard packed gravel road, I'd kiss the tuchus of the man that invented that rotohammer. 

 

I recently had a project that needed a GLO brass cap in the center of a county road. I couldn't take the Dewalt, it was needed on a subdivision for 70 plus monuments we were setting.

It took so long to bar out the top of that monument, I was there over 1/2 an hour, the Dewalt would have been 5 minutes max. And those 70 monuments got set and checked in the morning with two guys. Probably would have been a couple of days with hand hammers, the ground was like concrete there too.

Frozen ground: no problem, hard packed dry like concrete ground: no problem. It's a work horse. Probably should get a couple more of them, but they aren't cheap. 

So you guys just drill in the dirt with the 5/8 bit, or what?  I think they make some sort of chisel bit for them but I'm not sure how well that would work in gravel.

@bstrand we use a spade/ chisel bit and the tool set to hammer. It works great. On pavement, I’ll drill a 9-10 hole pattern around my hotspot with a 3/4” masonry bit. It helps control cracking and gives some room for the material to “shove” into before it breaks free. Extra batteries are a good investment also. ( the number you think you need + 1)

It basically becomes a jack-hammer

I recently bought a ground rod driver to be able to set control monuments to refusal with the Dewalt. Almost bought a spade bit on the way to this project but it was late in the day and I didn't feel like stopping at Home Depot. The 5/8" masonry bit was like a knife in butter through the hard pack road base.

Posted by: @rankin_file

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@bstrand we use a spade/ chisel bit and the tool set to hammer. It works great. On pavement, I’ll drill a 9-10 hole pattern around my hotspot with a 3/4” masonry bit. It helps control cracking and gives some room for the material to “shove” into before it breaks free. Extra batteries are a good investment also. ( the number you think you need + 1)

Nice, probably gonna order one of these today.  I've used them a little bit at past companies and if I remember right the ribbing on rebar made it so a 1/8 thicker bit works best for the rebar, so if I'm setting a max of 5/8" I'll want a 3/4" drill.

Posted by: @bstrand

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So you guys just drill in the dirt with the 5/8 bit, or what?

I'll drill a series of holes before digging in with the chisel bit. That gives the dirt displaced by the chisel some place to go.  

Posted by: @bstrand

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[quote data-userid="96" @rankin_file 

 

Nice, probably gonna order one of these today.  I've used them a little bit at past companies and if I remember right the ribbing on rebar made it so a 1/8 thicker bit works best for the rebar, so if I'm setting a max of 5/8" I'll want a 3/4" drill.

 

You need a bunch of bits. As far as a 5/8" rebar we simply drive those, if it's concrete then the monument is a stem cap with magnet. But there is no drilling for ground monuments, buy a bit that covers the rebar, put the driver in drive mode, it pounds 2' rebar down in seconds, even in that hard packed county road it would be nothing for the driver to set it. The big problem is the drill driver is heavy, but worth it. You better be sure the point is in the correct location. It's difficult to drag them out of the ground. 

Just used mine yesterday to bust through the pavement and a foot and half of hard packed gravel to recover a section and quarter corner that were paved over. Funny part is this was for local gov, my employer, who just spent a couple million redoing three miles of pavement there three years ago, but apparently couldn't afford a few monument wells. I'm just glad the monuments were still there  and I didn't have to use a spud bar. Guess I need to report a couple new potholes in their new pavement. 😜 

Posted by: @mightymoe

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Posted by: @bstrand

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[quote data-userid="96" @rankin_file 

 

Nice, probably gonna order one of these today.  I've used them a little bit at past companies and if I remember right the ribbing on rebar made it so a 1/8 thicker bit works best for the rebar, so if I'm setting a max of 5/8" I'll want a 3/4" drill.

 

You need a bunch of bits. As far as a 5/8" rebar we simply drive those, if it's concrete then the monument is a stem cap with magnet. But there is no drilling for ground monuments, buy a bit that covers the rebar, put the driver in drive mode, it pounds 2' rebar down in seconds, even in that hard packed county road it would be nothing for the driver to set it. The big problem is the drill driver is heavy, but worth it. You better be sure the point is in the correct location. It's difficult to drag them out of the ground.

We've always just drilled a pilot hole in gravel or asphalt and then pounded the rebar flush with a sledgehammer.  We figured if we need a bit to drill through asphalt we may as well just use the same bit in gravel.

Posted by: @williwaw

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my employer, who just spent a couple million redoing three miles of pavement there three years ago, but apparently couldn't afford a few monument wells.

Yep, this is why I don't mind mauling roads.  Stupidity should be punished.  😏  The only thing that worries me is accidentally mauling caps with the drill.

I don't see the point of drilling out gravel. For concrete or pavement yes. The driver sets rebar in frozen ground and hard packed ground. No drilling needed. 

In the 70's when I started surveying I was given a star drill. What the LS didn't understand was that I had worked in a machine shop/fabrication place with lots of tools. I went to the local rent-it-center and started renting a core drill (a tool I'd used) for urban concrete and said forget that lame star drill and those stupid things for monuments that they wanted me to set. The LS was amazed, I kept wondering how working around construction they never noticed the core drilling the testers were doing. It was a no-brainer. Then came Hilti, and finally the monster DeWalt thing we have; no longer were long extension cords or a generator needed, and now much less room was needed for the tight locations. The battery powered quality, heavy duty drill/drivers are expensive, but it's a business, may as well get into the 21st century with equipment. We use it all the time. We set urban caps and have for years, some are now 40 years on, I don't understand mag nails, or PK nails and washers for property, control or traversing but not for property monuments, the alternative is so simple, and so easy. 

Recently the PC and a helper set a small 70 monument subdivision in the morning. There was more time pre-stamping monuments and organizing them than setting them. One guy on the GPS, one guy driving and lugging around caps, drill, rebar. Locate the point, maybe 5 seconds to drive it in, set the cap with the correct orientation, a quick check for location, move to the next, walk down line. After it's all in the ground, re-start the base, check in, then check all the monuments as the lath is marked up and pounded down. Onsite about 9:am, back at the office before lunch. I asked if they were headed out after lunch to finish and they said all done. With a sledge and hammers, might take two days, depending how hard the ground is. The drill/driver pays for itself quickly. 

Posted by: @mightymoe

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I don't see the point of drilling out gravel.

I haven't tried the driver method but I don't doubt it works great.  Drilling all the holes saves buying that driver attachment I guess, and I kinda like being able to tilt the drill at the top and widen the hole so a cap can sit flush with the ground.

Posted by: @bstrand

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Posted by: @mightymoe

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I don't see the point of drilling out gravel.

I haven't tried the driver method but I don't doubt it works great.  Drilling all the holes saves buying that driver attachment I guess, and I kinda like being able to tilt the drill at the top and widen the hole so a cap can sit flush with the ground.

In pavement or concrete it's at least a two bit process for a rebar cap. One hole for the rebar, widen it out for the cap, depends on the type of cap you're setting, you may want to use two bits for a cap, one for the stem, one for the top, we have a 3" core bit for a 3" cap. You have to widen it out so the cap sets correctly. Then grout it in. Bits aren't cheap but they don't break you either. If you invest in one of the good drill/drivers you will want a spade, a driver, a number of bit sizes.  

From the business side of things, it is critical that you get paid for using equipment that reduces time onsite but still bill out as if it took that extra time.  Otherwise you are slitting your own throat.