Your thoughts please

That's a tough one.

I worked for a company for 17 years, when parting I requested and got copies of all my CAD files on DVD. That kinda left a pucker mark in the office chair.

Your thoughts please (with edit)

It's nice they sought you out. Make sure you've got some emails or correspondence that indicate you didn't pursue the work. But, at my age, so what if you did?

Have the owner/ client formally request a copy from anybody that has one.

There's nothing wrong with hustling work. Work is where you find it. Good luck, don't sell your work too cheap.

EDIT: Just happened to talk to an attorney while reading the messages here and flew that one past him. His opinion was you're probably out of luck on any "right" to any information or copies. As an employee your work would be considered "work for hire".

Lo siento mucho, mi amigo.

The property owner should request a copy of the survey, I would even have them request a CAD file of the linework. If they paid for it they own it as far as I'm concerned.

Matt, that's a work for hire and the company owns it. It is their proprietary data. The map itself could be provided to you by the client if they wish. But in any event it is not an update if you do it. It is only an update if your previous employer does it.

What's the difference? If you do it as an update you will still be liable for the previous work under a contract that you may not even know what it said. In other words, you would be agreeing to indemnify your previous employer for any contractual failings; which you probably had no knowledge or control of at the time (or at least limited). If you make it clear it is a first contract with the client, you will only be liable for what you do now (which should be a complete and thorough ALTA survey). The company was paid to take the liability from the beginning, you were only paid a salary or hourly wage.

You're always liable for negligence if you signed it (for the statutory time, which is likely over). But, contract liability is the big one because it lasts longer, and in this case you don't even know what they promised probably. The ALTA specs may or may not have been the complete agreement.

So, give them a deal on it if you want, because you know the area, but don't call it an update.

But then I'm not a practicing attorney and this is not legal advice.

> I received a call from an attorney wanting me to do an update of an ALTA that I completed while working for a different firm.
>
> My question is, do I have any rights to work that I signed while working for a different company?
>
> I called the company up that I used to work for and was denied even a PDF copy. I did not expect a CAD file but a paper or PDF copy of my own survey would be nice.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> Matt

Have the attorney provide a copy of the old survey...price the new survey from scratch.

You should'a took a thumb drive on your last day

Bizarre thinking in my opinion. If a former employee here needed his or her cad files, etc, we'd be happy to oblige. After all, he was the surveyor in charge who stamped the work. It's his baby, whether his boundary solution would agree with mine or not. We couldn't update his work anyway without redoing it, and we never update an ALTA more than 6 months after the original. Very strange.

:bad:

If you stamped it, it is YOUR work.

IF you did not stamp it, but simply did the field work, it "Belongs" to the person that stamped it.

So, WHO is LIABLE for it if it is wrong?

WHO are the clients gonna call, if there is a problem?

WHO is gonna get turned in to the BOR if there is a problem?

YOU should have taken a complete copy of your work, when you left that "firm".

N

double :bad:

There is a fellow here that quit where he was working right after he got licensed, but before he left, he copied all of his bosses electronic files. I told the boss he should have sued the former employee for theft.

If you are working for someone else, you have ZERO rights to any intellectual property you were involved with while on the payroll.

I agree in as far as I would not take things that were not mine. However, there is a big difference between working as an unlicensed survey tech and signing and being responsible for the work that has your name on it regardless of who's company it was under.

Matt

> I agree in as far as I would not take things that were not mine. However, there is a big difference between working as an unlicensed survey tech and signing and being responsible for the work that has your name on it regardless of who's company it was under.

Matt,

You are correct. Been there, done that, still regretting and sweating it out.

If I was to every work for anyone besides myself ever again (God forbid that ever happen), I would insist on an employment contract specifying that if I was in responsible charge for any survey, I would be provided complete copies of all documents, notes, CAD, GPS files and any data related to the job for my personal storage and keeping. No exceptions.

Once you sign that survey YOU are liable and responsible for your professional work, so you had probably better have and keep the relevant information especially after leaving a place of employment.

Actually there's not much difference. You would be entitled to review the file, maybe even entitled to a copy of it, only if a negligence claim is filed and the companies E&O doesn't take care of it, or if you need to defend against a board action.

As Brian mentions below, if looking to work for a company you could demand a contract that entitles you to copies, but I doubt many firms would go along with that. On the contrary, most would want to go the other way and get you to sign a no compete agreement.

When working for someone else you are being compensated by money, not records in the hopes of building your own business.

There was a news story posted here 2012 (by Derek). It was from Park Rapids, MN and detailed the case of a surveyor who took records from the company, was sued for $165000. Unfortunately, it's no longer available, but it was a good read about this topic.

As to some of the other comments. There's the way we think things should be, then there's business law. When we stamp work we can't help feel it is ours, and maybe there's businesses that are loose that way, but they don't have to be.

The term our board uses is "surveyor in responsible charge". So does business law dictate that I, the surveyor in responsible charge of a particular project am not entitled to a copy or any file copies used in my boundary determination while working for another firm?

That sounds preposterous.

So if someone had a problem with a survey that I completed and they called and complained about my work to the company that I used to work for (maybe a bridge was burnt and they had a grudge me) could use that complaint and file a formal complaint with the board and deny me a copy of the work to defend or take another look at the boundary?

Just running through scenarios. Duane, you may very well be right but it just seems wrong to deny a licensee a copy of work that he signed.

Matt

> If they paid for it they own it as far as I'm concerned.

Disagree. My clients do not own my files. I own my files. After I fulfill my obligations under the terms of the initial contract, the client has received what was agreed upon.

Larry P

201 KAR 18:150 states: (Note: It says nothing about survey companies employing other professionals.)

(2) A professional land surveyor shall retain as permanent records the original plat of survey prepared by the land surveyor, or a copy thereof, and a copy of any new physical description that was prepared from the survey.
(3) A professional land surveyor shall retain as permanent records the following items used to perform a boundary survey:
(a) Research documents including notations stating the source of each;
(b) Field and office notes;
(c) Electronic and magnetically stored field data;
(d) Documents of calculation stating the:
1. Relative positional accuracy or closure as required by Section 7 of this administrative regulation;
2. Adjustment method;
3. Bearing reference datum; and
4. Determination of corners;
(e) Plat of survey and written description, if any, of the surveyed parcel or tract of land;
(f) All other pertinent information necessary to reproduce the boundary survey; and
(g) All other pertinent information supporting the location of the boundary lines and corners of the boundary survey.

In the case of a board complaint or negligence action the rules of discovery would require they provide you a copy to review in your defense. But most companies would have you covered under their E&O policy and you would not necessarily even know about a negligence claim as they mostly settle things before they get very far.

You could be faced with a board complaint and find out for the first time that a negligence claim was settled over the matter, although you should be notified, but sometimes things happen fast in one arena and slow in another and communications go through in the wrong order. At any rate, you would then be entitled to a copy of the settlement and the job file in order to prepare for the board complaint.

It may sound unfair in some ways, but the company is paying overhead to cover the licensee in the way of insurance. This is built into the cost of the job as well as the salary. If you work for a company that does not cover you; don't sign or stamp anything.

That's not going to apply to your situation because of other law. But if it did, you would be in violation and the company would have no duty to help you cure your mistake by now providing copies.

In NY we are required to provide a copy to the original client if asked. We can charge a reasonable fee for it. What you provide should be in the contract. If the contract is silent you probably would have to provide copies of the whole file. My contracts state I will provide a certain number of maps, set pins, etc.. And, anything not included in above is an extra fee to be negotiated. Want my entire file with CAD? How much is it worth to ya?