Lots of good advice on here on how to handle it professionally. The more professional you are when/if responding, the better it will look to the surveyor board or the state bar. Also, very good example for why a Board seeks a response and information from both sides in a complaint investigation. Contradictory statements and evidence tend to help vet something closer to the truth. It's my experience that Tony at your Board is a very reasonable person to discuss this with.
Jack Chiles, post: 352224, member: 24 wrote: Dear Mr. Chiles,
Attached please find a copy of an Elevation Certificate sealed by you on August 15, 2005. Please note that the elevation certificate is not signed by you. This copy, which was sent to me by my insurance broker, has been used by his firm to obtain Flood Insurance for my property, but they need a signed and sealed document.
Pursuant to Rule 663.18 (a), you are in violation of the General Rules of Practices and Procedures as promulgated by the Texas Board of Professional Land Surveying.
Please send to me one original Elevation Certificate signed and sealed by you by Monday, January 11, 2016, or I will submit this elevation certificate with a formal complaint to the Board.
Sincerely,
Ms. Loretta B. Good-Smith, Esq.
Fact #1: I used to sign all of my documents with light blue ink, which made them almost impossible to reproduce at that time. Since then copiers have been improved to the point that they can now copy light blue ink pretty well.
Fact #2: This person is the fourth person in chain of ownership of this piece of property since my client requested the Elevation Certificate.
Fact #3: The copy I received was in fairly poor condition. The legibility has degraded significantly when compared to the one in my folder.
Fact #4: FEMA has revised the Flood Plains since then.
Fact #5: The structure in question contains 5,200 square feet and is situated on 3 very valuable acres, probably worth in excess of $3 million dollars.First, I got amused. Now I'm getting perturbed.
I'm not going to answer her, of course. But I have been thinking of retorts, lol.
"I'm not going to answer her, of course."
IMHO that is absolutely the worst course of action you could take...
Tell her that you used biodegradable ink designed to fade out at the same time that Fema raised the flood elevation. Also tell her that the current ink you are using is much more expensive.
James
paden cash, post: 352234, member: 20 wrote: Apparently you're in possession of a poor photocopy of an out-of-date Elevation Certificate I had prepared for my client, the record owner at the time the cert was prepared. When the cert was prepared it was my habit to sign in blue ink to specifically deter people from copying the document and presenting it as an original. There are a lot of people out there with no scruples whatsoever. The certificate was prepared for my client only. I am in possession of all the original correspondence with said client and can find no error with the way the cert was prepared and originally presented to my client.
Just leave it at that. No need to meet antagonism with more antagonism. And never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty. The pig likes it.
Jim in AZ, post: 352320, member: 249 wrote: "I'm not going to answer her, of course."
IMHO that is absolutely the worst course of action you could take...
I tend to agree with you Jim. A careful, proper, and professional response would go a long ways toward your credibility if or when a complaint is submitted to a board. Much more credible than simply ignoring the correspondence. But the OP may know other information about this situation that we don't know. Just food for thought based on what was provided.
Who knows, you may end up getting additional work out of it by providing a new report.
Offer to have her come by your office and make a copy of what is in your file. She will need to sign an agreement for your time to pull the folder. As you believe you can find it within a few hours and you need to include your time for responding to her groundless accusation, she needs to pay your $500 minimum up front. You have then made a reasonable accommodation for her request. She has already gotten paid the $250 for writing the threat letter. That's all she could do. She knows that you will never be held liable for a copy of a certificate. Attorneys get to bill even when they don't have a leg to stand on. You can throw words at them all day, but $$$ is the only thing that gets their attention.
paden cash, post: 352234, member: 20 wrote: Oh, go on.....take a walk on the wild side and answer her. You can roll over and let these folks
Something along the lines of....
Ms. Good-Smith,
Apparently you're in possession of a poor photocopy of an out-of-date Elevation Certificate I had prepared for my client, the record owner at the time the cert was prepared. When the cert was prepared it was my habit to sign in blue ink to specifically deter people from copying the document and presenting it as an original. There are a lot of people out there with no scruples whatsoever. The certificate was prepared for my client only. I am in possession of all the original correspondence with said client and can find no error with the way the cert was prepared and originally presented to my client. Please note this in your "formal complaint" to the State Board on Monday, January 11, 2016.
As it appears the FEMA form is not only outdated, FEMA has revised the FIRM panels in that area and the BFE may have changed. I would suggest you seek a current and updated Elevation Certificate from a competent Land Surveyor that you have not tried to strong arm into providing free services.
Coercion, even heavily veiled threats, are not only unprofessional but possibly illegal. I am forwarding your letter with my formal complaint to your State Bar Association and am contacting my State Board concerning the grounds for you "complaint".
fug you very much,
J. Q. Surveyor
Good letter. I wonder if he should cc her client. Maybe the client needs to realize that they are spending more on having an attorney bully you out of a free elevation certificate than it would cost to just order a new, original certificate.
as to coercion and heavily-veiled threats being wrong....don't attorneys get accolades from their board for them?
Tom Adams, post: 352376, member: 7285 wrote: ....don't attorneys get accolades from their board for them?
Probably award dinners and plaques....
Jim in AZ, post: 352320, member: 249 wrote: "I'm not going to answer her, of course."
IMHO that is absolutely the worst course of action you could take...
No, IMHO the worst would be to ignore it, and then post about intentionally ignoring it on a public forum, where Mrs. Esq. can find it and prove that you were being unprofessional.
ppm, post: 352381, member: 6808 wrote: No, IMHO the worst would be to ignore it, and then post about intentionally ignoring it on a public forum, where Mrs. Esq. can find it and prove that you were being unprofessional.
Maybe I just don't understand. What's wrong or unprofessional with that?
https://www.fema.gov/homeowners-frequently-asked-questions
8. How Do I Obtain A Copy Of The Elevation Certificate For My Property?
The Elevation Certificate is one way for a community to comply with the National Flood Insurance Program requirement that the community obtain the elevation of the lowest floor (including basement) of all new and substantially improved structures and maintain a record of such information. The Elevation Certificate also is required to properly rate certain structures for flood insurance premiums.
If an Elevation Certificate has been prepared for your property, you may be able to obtain it from the property developer or from community officials. Communities often require preparation of Elevation Certificates for properties as part of the permitting process. You can contact your local floodplain officials or the planning and zoning office to see if an Elevation Certificate already exists for your property.
Elevation Certificates must be prepared and certified by a Licensed Land Surveyor, Registered Professional Engineer or Registered Architect who is authorized by state or local law to certify elevation information. Community officials who are authorized by local law or ordinance to provide floodplain management information may also sign some sections of the certificate.
paden cash, post: 352378, member: 20 wrote: Probably award dinners and plaques....
Should be award dinner and plagues.
- My take as a professional surveyor would be that you let the lawyer know that there is a requirement for a current to the time (now) FEMA certificate just as her profession requires a current opinion as to the title.
You might also ask if she would certify title on an out of date opinion by herself or another lawyer ?
Cheers,
Derek
Jack Chiles, post: 352224, member: 24 wrote: Dear Mr. Chiles,
Attached please find a copy of an Elevation Certificate sealed by you on August 15, 2005. Please note that the elevation certificate is not signed by you. This copy, which was sent to me by my insurance broker, has been used by his firm to obtain Flood Insurance for my property, but they need a signed and sealed document.
Pursuant to Rule 663.18 (a), you are in violation of the General Rules of Practices and Procedures as promulgated by the Texas Board of Professional Land Surveying.
Please send to me one original Elevation Certificate signed and sealed by you by Monday, January 11, 2016, or I will submit this elevation certificate with a formal complaint to the Board.
Sincerely,
Ms. Loretta B. Good-Smith, Esq.
Fact #1: I used to sign all of my documents with light blue ink, which made them almost impossible to reproduce at that time. Since then copiers have been improved to the point that they can now copy light blue ink pretty well.
Fact #2: This person is the fourth person in chain of ownership of this piece of property since my client requested the Elevation Certificate.
Fact #3: The copy I received was in fairly poor condition. The legibility has degraded significantly when compared to the one in my folder.
Fact #4: FEMA has revised the Flood Plains since then.
Fact #5: The structure in question contains 5,200 square feet and is situated on 3 very valuable acres, probably worth in excess of $3 million dollars.First, I got amused. Now I'm getting perturbed.
I'm not going to answer her, of course. But I have been thinking of retorts, lol.
Past 10 years since the date of original certification I don't think I would sweat it.
Be sure to return her phone call or respond to her email, Paden's letter would be an excellent response. The TBPLS does not look favorably upon unreturned phone calls or correspondence, regardless of how ridiculous the request might be. I would never offer to give a copy to the original client if they can get the original client to call me for them. It was used for the purpose that it was requested and is more than likely out of date if it is in the sinking Houston area anyway.
Part of our duty as Surveyors is to protect the public - issuing copies of old surveys or old elevation certificates to knowingly be misused by the public is not in my opinion a very good way to protect the public. From having read your posts in the past, I believe that you probably feel the same way also.
That being said, full speed ahead into the New Year!
