Just met the biggest a$$-hole ever, in over 25 years of surveying.
We were on a power easement that went through this guy's back yard, (working for the power company). My co-worker went to knock on the door to tell the homeowner who we were and what we were doing. The guy pulled the curtain back, saw him, and then locked the door. Oh, well, we continued working.
The guy came out later with his little yappy dogs, saw us, and went crazy, "Get the F#*k off my property". Ok, told him what we were doing. He repeated his request. I said ok, and we just needed to get the rest of our equipment. He said, "No, get the F#*k off my property. I used to work for the #### Police Department. Get the F#*k out, or I'll call them".
I said, fine, but still needed to get my equipment. He then looped his dog leash around the nearest tree, and came right up to me, in my face, and repeated his request. I started weighing my options if he hit me, figuring it was about to happen. But he was all huff, and my co-worker had pretty much everything bundled up, and with a, "have a nice day", we headed out.
I would tell him to go right ahead and call the law. They will help straighten him out.
On a related note................................ARE YOU THE ******* THAT WAS IN MY BACKYARD TODAY?
Had to ask. You see I have sometimes been confused with being "the biggest a$$-hole ever". I can't imagine why.
Holy Cow, post: 408439, member: 50 wrote: I would tell him to go right ahead and call the law. They will help straighten him out.
You would think but it's not always the case.... many cops aren't the brightest.
Rich., post: 408448, member: 10450 wrote: You would think but it's not always the case.... many cops aren't the brightest.
That is indeed true. I was escorted from my client's property once merely because an adversarial neighbor called the police. Most beat cops are more interested in getting everybody to "sit down and shut up" than they are with the concept of any legal principle.
But never deny yourself the fact you have the right to be there as an agent or assign of the owner of dominant estates that include ingress and egress.
Tough world out there. I keep copies of the state statue that gives me the right to trespass. Had to show it to the local sheriff dept recently.
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In Texas you would probably have to have a signed permit or court order to be there.
When the property owner says for you to go, it is time to go until you have the proper paperwork in hand or a police escort so you can complete your tasks on that property.
I've seen companies, individuals and even law enforcement having to get court orders to be able to get their vehicles back from passing thru closed gates without permission and being locked in.
Property owners have rights and do not have to agree with entry by third party companies until proper notice is given.
:imp:
A Harris, post: 408458, member: 81 wrote: Property owners have rights and do not have to agree with entry by third party companies until proper notice is given. :imp:
So true in most cases. Rules are rules. And you can argue and usually still lose.
Something I always try to reiterate to my employees when we're "prowling" around: We are the "trespassers" 110% of the time. And even if an expo facto investigation reveals you really did have the right to work within a specific area; at the time you were still the trespasser and will probably be dealt with as such.
Seriously, this has been such a minor issue through the years I hardly give it a thought anymore. A wee bit of explaining is normally all that is required. But, I don't work in the danger zones many of you do. The occasional meth head who is in the middle of an attack of paranoia or something similar is about the only problem. Had one a couple of summers ago who was screaming at my rodman for walking in the street right-of-way. He sent her my way. I calmly explained what we were doing and that we weren't really on the property she was renting that WAS NOT her land. Mentioned her landlord's name. That got her attention. She was still madder than a wet hen so I told her that her father-in-law had been rodman a dozen years earlier doing identical work with me and that I had known her husband since he was in diapers. That finally shut her up. She figured out I knew far too much about her. Drugs are a curse.
I find the greyer I've gotten the less people worry about me. Naturally, also being a silver-tongued devil doesn't hurt either.
Licensed Land Surveyor
Finger Lakes Region, Upstate New York
We keep FL Statute #472.029 on the back of our time sheets just in case of times like these. It could also be shown to law enforcement when they show up.
"472.029ÛÄAuthorization to enter lands of third parties; conditions.ÛÓ
(1)ÛÄIN GENERAL.ÛÓSurveyors and mappers or their subordinates may go on, over, and upon the lands of others when necessary to make surveys and maps or locate or set monuments, and, in so doing, may carry with them their agents and employees necessary for that purpose. Entry under the right granted by this subsection does not constitute trespass, and surveyors and mappers and their duly authorized agents or employees so entering are not liable to arrest or to a civil action by reason of such entry; however, this subsection does not give authority to registrants, subordinates, agents, or employees to destroy, injure, damage, or move any physical improvements on lands of another without the written permission of the landowner."
Holy Cow, post: 408464, member: 50 wrote: Seriously, this has been such a minor issue through the years I hardly give it a thought anymore. A wee bit of explaining is normally all that is required. But, I don't work in the danger zones many of you do. The occasional meth head who is in the middle of an attack of paranoia or something similar is about the only problem. Had one a couple of summers ago who was screaming at my rodman for walking in the street right-of-way. He sent her my way. I calmly explained what we were doing and that we weren't really on the property she was renting that WAS NOT her land. Mentioned her landlord's name. That got her attention. She was still madder than a wet hen so I told her that her father-in-law had been rodman a dozen years earlier doing identical work with me and that I had known her husband since he was in diapers. That finally shut her up. She figured out I knew far too much about her. Drugs are a curse.
Early last year we were working on a division of about 30 acres or so. My Client was purchasing 20 acres West of the State Road. One of the brothers lived in a house on the East side and was not happy with the deal for some reason. We had been warned to watch out for him. Well were going around the East boundaries of the original tract and he came out and started on Tim cussing every word. I heard the ruckus and headed that way and he commenced to cussing me. Not kidding, every other word began with F. We removed ourselves to the other side of the road and called the client who called the other siblings and they were out there in short time and had him contained. I then found out he was a Meth head. I can spot them a mile away now.
Ever since I took the Mediation course I have revised my tactics with neighbors. And it's worked, people defuse themselves given the opportunity.
Dtp
To quote my late Father, "the right of way never did a dead man any good". These incidents happen so rarely that I instruct my people to get off the property and call the office. If they would not allow us to get our equipment, I would call the police and keep my eye on it until the police arrived.Sometimes people are already mad before we arrive. Sounds like you handled the situation very well. Not as much immediate fun as winning by a knock out.
lmbrls, post: 408482, member: 6823 wrote: To quote my late Father, "the right of way never did a dead man any good". These incidents happen so rarely that I instruct my people to get off the property and call the office. If they would not allow us to get our equipment, I would call the police and keep my eye on it until the police arrived.Sometimes people are already mad before we arrive. Sounds like you handled the situation very well. Not as much immediate fun as winning by a knock out.
I agree. There are legal rights and then there is reality. The world is a happy place when those two align, but not so much when they collide. I hear pedestrians have the right of way, but that doesn't change the physics of a 2 ton automobile and a 200 pound human. Having said that, talking to distract them while you either get that one shot you need or so that you can collect your gear and move on is an art. "Winning" the argument has a different meaning in those situations.
In Texas, we do not have a right of entry for surveyors. We do have license to carry though. I wonder if it came down to it and an armed surveyor was trespassing, was confronted by an irrational property owner such that he felt threatened for his life enough to discharge his weapon, just how the law would handle such an instance. I hope I never find out.
"I will call the cops myself if you keep bothering us" -- works every time.
This is why it helps to "look the part".
One memorable experience, I stepped literally one foot onto this guy's driveway (suburban neighborhood) to let the neighbor know who I was and he and his wife begin yelling at me I was so shocked it took me a moment to compute which just made them yell louder, so I left. They were tweakers, he is a painter. So I came back with the police, she was about 5' tall and cute but looked like she could break me in half. As soon as he saw her he completely changed into the nicest guy you ever met and he started spilling out his sad story of his life to her, I bet she gets that a lot. I set my corner and left. It was a couple of feet into his yard.
I have the benefit of being able to call on coworkers with badge and gun, a lot of people don't know Cal Fire has cops too. Look for the star badge, they are full fledged peace officers, but the need is rare. I wear the blue uniform, people like fire fighters, I've had less than 10% of the problems since I've worked for this department. They don't question our presence, generally.
Shawn Billings, post: 408484, member: 6521 wrote: I agree. There are legal rights and then there is reality. The world is a happy place when those two align, but not so much when they collide. I hear pedestrians have the right of way, but that doesn't change the physics of a 2 ton automobile and a 200 pound human. Having said that, talking to distract them while you either get that one shot you need or so that you can collect your gear and move on is an art. "Winning" the argument has a different meaning in those situations.
In Texas, we do not have a right of entry for surveyors. We do have license to carry though. I wonder if it came down to it and an armed surveyor was trespassing, was confronted by an irrational property owner such that he felt threatened for his life enough to discharge his weapon, just how the law would handle such an instance. I hope I never find out.
Shawn,
No matter how irrational the property owner might have been, it still would LOOK horrible, even if you felt in fear of your life. I can't imagine a realistic circumstance where a jury or judge wouldn't think that you were at fault. There's an old saying amongst attorneys, "It's not how the book reads, it's how the movie looks".
Glenn Breysacher, post: 408547, member: 188 wrote: Shawn,
No matter how irrational the property owner might have been, it still would LOOK horrible, even if you felt in fear of your life. I can't imagine a realistic circumstance where a jury or judge wouldn't think that you were at fault. There's an old saying amongst attorneys, "It's not how the book reads, it's how the movie looks".
That was my thought, too. If I plan on doing a lot of trespassing (particularly in a neighborhood where it is often unavoidable), I often will leave the sidearm locked in the truck. But there is another saying that goes "Better to be judged by 12 rather than carried by 6."
