We did a job for a university annex situated in beautiful woods resembling a very large park. Prior to hiring our services there, a member of the university facilities management department had been sent out to investigate the sound of chain saw work wafting up from down in the woods. When he got there he found a man (who owned a very small parcel of land that was about the size of a large double wide trailer that was totally surrounded by university land with only an easement to access it) out on university property cutting down huge trees . When we were called to survey the man's tract and encroachments we were introduced to the dean of the university and the facilities management worker mentioned. The facility management worker (a black man) told us that upon being confronted the man with the chain saw was not at all happy about being interrupted or interrogated so he left and reported what he saw. The dean said "Oh yes, discretion is that better part of valor!" The management worker said "well they always told me a good run was better than a pooor stand." Good advice!
About seven years ago I was tasked with staking a utility easement through a subdivision, 15' off the ROW, standard stuff. It was a big rush job, client wanted job done as quickly as possible so they get construction people in there asap. Nobody ever took the time to notify any of the affected residents of their plans (typical). Rained all day. It was getting late in the day and I was tired and soaked to the skin, nearly to the end of the block and done. Got one stake in the ground in the edge of this yard, I was bent over pounding it in, dreaming of dry clothes, a warm meal and a cold beer when out of the corner of my eye I see a blur coming at me fast. The resident, a young 20 something year old man ran me over like a quarter back getting sacked, knocked the wind out me and laid me out. As I laid on the ground fighting to catch my breath I looked up at the man, all puffed up and holding a shovel over his shoulder getting ready to execute the coup de grace. I was screwed and I knew it. Just looked up at him and said, 'get it over with man, I'm too tired to fight back. I'm just a surveyor trying to feed his children'. After that he seemed to deflate and lowered the shovel but didn't apologize. Had I had my sidearm with me, he would have been dead and my problems would have only just begun.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
Holy Cow, post: 408439, member: 50 wrote: I would tell him to go right ahead and call the law. They will help straighten him out.
That is EXACTLY what you should have done. In fact, had it been me, I would have hit 911 right then and there...
Holy Cow, post: 408439, member: 50 wrote: I would tell him to go right ahead and call the law.
I would get out my phone and call them myself...
Hello, 911? Yes; I am a land surveyor, working in a power line easement and this guy came out and threatened me!
One issue is that just because there is an easement across someone's property some people think they can do whatever they want within the easement. Every easement has a conditional purpose, and it could be arguable as to whether surveying on the easement meets "for maintenance of the power line". (also I don't know if you have some kind of right of entry laws for surveying)
Not arguing any point, because you tried to get permission, and you needed to collect your equipment, just pointing that out. (Actually that was perfect that you distracted the guy while your coworker got all the equipment.)
lmbrls, post: 408482, member: 6823 wrote: To quote my late Father, "the right of way never did a dead man any good".
That's what we call being "Dead Right"
Tom Adams, post: 408561, member: 7285 wrote: One issue is that just because there is an easement across someone's property some people think they can do whatever they want within the easement. Every easement has a conditional purpose, and it could be arguable as to whether surveying on the easement meets "for maintenance of the power line". (also I don't know if you have some kind of right of entry laws for surveying)
Not arguing any point, because you tried to get permission, and you needed to collect your equipment, just pointing that out. (Actually that was perfect that you distracted the guy while your coworker got all the equipment.)
We had permission, and the power company had sent advanced notice. We had a list of contact property owners, and he wasn't one of them. I guess he must've ignored the part where it mentioned to contact them if he wanted a call before we come on the property.
Yeah, I distracted the guy - ha.
Scotland, post: 408457, member: 559 wrote: Tough world out there. I keep copies of the state statue that gives me the right to trespass. Had to show it to the local sheriff dept recently.
Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk
You best print that on kevlar if you intend to force the issue...
JPH, post: 408648, member: 6636 wrote: We had permission, and the power company had sent advanced notice. We had a list of contact property owners, and he wasn't one of them. I guess he must've ignored the part where it mentioned to contact them if he wanted a call before we come on the property.
Yeah, I distracted the guy - ha.
I sometimes would be out with the crew on a project and some guy would come up to them and start talking about all his problems (not the client). I found my most useful part was to start talking to the guy and listening to his issues (with the survey or what he thought the survey was about). I found it a good way to let the guys get some work done while this motormouth was seeking attention. Yeah, you were taking heat, but your partner was able to get he equipment loaded up.
Yep, I'm not the smoothest talker, for sure. Sometimes I still don't understand the humans. But I can usually diffuse things a bit, with explaining things, and even showing them what we're doing or what we found. This guy wasn't having any of that, though.
A Harris, post: 408458, member: 81 wrote: In Texas you would probably have to have a signed permit or court order to be there.
When the property owner says for you to go, it is time to go until you have the proper paperwork in hand or a police escort so you can complete your tasks on that property.
I've seen companies, individuals and even law enforcement having to get court orders to be able to get their vehicles back from passing thru closed gates without permission and being locked in.
Property owners have rights and do not have to agree with entry by third party companies until proper notice is given.
:imp:
They agreed to entry when they granted the easement.
aliquot, post: 408702, member: 2486 wrote: They agreed to entry when they granted the easement.
That is technically true in Oklahoma. But it never seems to work that way. Something I run into occasionally runs afoul of this legal fact. Occupants that didn't grant original easement (which are either lessees or in the chain of title) refuse to acknowledge the existence of the easement (dominant rights). When the "law" is called, they almost 100% agree with occupant and ask us "to leave".
Tom Adams, post: 408561, member: 7285 wrote: One issue is that just because there is an easement across someone's property some people think they can do whatever they want within the easement. Every easement has a conditional purpose, and it could be arguable as to whether surveying on the easement meets "for maintenance of the power line". (also I don't know if you have some kind of right of entry laws for surveying)
Not arguing any point, because you tried to get permission, and you needed to collect your equipment, just pointing that out. (Actually that was perfect that you distracted the guy while your coworker got all the equipment.)
I think it would be pretty hard to argue that a power company can't survey their line within an easment reserved for their line.
paden cash, post: 408703, member: 20 wrote: That is technically true in Oklahoma. But it never seems to work that way. Something I run into occasionally runs afoul of this legal fact. Occupants that didn't grant original easement (which are either lessees or in the chain of title) refuse to acknowledge the existence of the easement (dominant rights). When the "law" is called, they almost 100% agree with occupant and ask us "to leave".
In Oklahoma surveyors are exempt from the trespassing statute, so on what legal grounds do they remove you?
aliquot, post: 408705, member: 2486 wrote: In Oklahoma surveyors are exempt from the trespassing statute, so on what legal grounds do they remove you?
What a laugh. All you need in Oklahoma to be a beat cop or county deputy is a HS diploma and a CLEET cert. Both are found on the back of Corn Flakes boxes. And the starting pay barely gets some kids above "Food Stamp" status. Like I said earlier, I was escorted (under protest) from my client's vacant lot by an officer because a nosy neighbor across the street "didn't like me being there". Beat cops are oblivious to any sort of legal terminology.
The best we can do is door knock or have the utility company send out mail notices. I've never had to go to court to get access, it's just not worth it. Simply put, if anybody protests your presence anywhere except maybe the road R/W, you're probably 'out of there'.
aliquot, post: 408702, member: 2486 wrote: They agreed to entry when they granted the easement.
Previous warning was delivered and posted signs were visible.
They did not enter the property along the easement.
They passed thru a closed gate into another part of the property without permission and got themselves locked in by the land owner.
That is trespassing and entry without a warrant.
paden cash, post: 408456, member: 20 wrote: Most beat cops are more interested in getting everybody to "sit down and shut up" than they are with the concept of any legal principle.
Yeah, that or "It's a civil matter" 😉
paden cash, post: 408707, member: 20 wrote: What a laugh. All you need in Oklahoma to be a beat cop or county deputy is a HS diploma and a CLEET cert. Both are found on the back of Corn Flakes boxes.
Funny, I think it was Kent that told me that was the how you got your Oklahoma Survey License.
Tom Adams, post: 408738, member: 7285 wrote: Funny, I think it was Kent that told me that was the how you got your Oklahoma Survey License.
With all due respect to my friend Kent I'm pretty sure he deals with a whole lot more Texas surveyors than Okies. And from what he has to say I get the impression the path to licensure is similar in both states......;)
paden cash, post: 408739, member: 20 wrote: With all due respect to my friend Kent I'm pretty sure he deals with a whole lot more Texas surveyors than Okies. And from what he has to say I get the impression the path to licensure is similar in both states......;)
Kent didn't really say it, it's just my way of making Oklahoma Surveyor jokes, and blaming it on Kent.