Working in a civil engineering company and we are getting busier so I need something more formal than the verbal request system we are using now. Does anyone have an example of a Survey Request Form that they are willing to share? Email is -andy dot nold- and then after the (at) sign it is -segpllc dot com-.
Thanks.
They're free..
at the donut shop..
Seriously though, through the years I've seen a number of different kinds.
I remember one civil firm I worked at had W.O.s that had the Section Township and Range somewhere near the top. The description and some client contact info was wunnerful to have.
Another "required" line was the bonehead's name that wrote it. You usually needed this to question them later about the hieroglyphics they left scrawled on the order.
Good Luck.
Are you asking for a request form for an internal order (engineering to surveying) or from an outside client to your firm?
internal. from the engineers. Need to get them to tell me what kind of project it is and get them thinking about what they need before the field work is finished. "Oh, could you also get..."
I've got one here somewhere, Andy, stand by, we're goin' in!
Got 2 on their way. One's excel and the other is word.
-JD-
> internal. from the engineers. Need to get them to tell me what kind of project it is and get them thinking about what they need before the field work is finished. "Oh, could you also get..."
Dude; you don't need a Survey Request Form, you need an engineer training manual;-)
Get in the habit of making them sit down with you for five or ten minutes as you both are scoping the project (before you price it). That way you get a two way communication thing going and you can give them input into the things they need, but haven't realized yet.
Then, when they get NTP, sit down again for another short 'kick-off' meeting to reiterate what you went over beforehand and make sure there has't been any scope creep while you were out of the loop and set your deliverable date.
James wins the internet today:-P
"engineer training manual"
Engineers cannot be trained. Don't even try. Just do what they meant to tell you what they thought they needed.
I know this as I are won.
Mr. Cow
Engineers CAN be trained.....just need the right sized stick!
-JD-
> Dude; you don't need a Survey Request Form, you need an engineer training manual;-)
>
That was tried at more than one place that I've worked, to no positive effect. With engineers, they already have it figured out that it's the idiot surveyors that can't follow simple instructions. It could never be that they didn't ask for what they really wanted.
I've used request forms that were to be filled out in sentences: "Locate X, Y, and Z. Stake A, B, and C. Check with job superintendent for offset distances...", and I've used forms that were devised as very detailed checklists designed to make the engineers consider all sorts of details that they would otherwise not consider until it's time to second guess the crew, or might just assume is a standard part of what they asked for. ("What do you mean you didn't locate the storm drain at the back of Lot XX?! Don't you know that you're supposed to do that when your asked to do cross sections of the road?! Are all surveyors as stupid as you?!")
A form of some kind is a very good idea. More important than the format is that an essential part of the process is that the engineer requesting the work must review the request with the Chief of Parties/Field Crew Coordinator prior to the work being scheduled. That gives the CoP the opportunity to ensure that the instructions are clear and complete, and that the engineer has asked for everything he needs and nothing that he actually doesn't need.
Yeah, like Fleming said. Honestly, you probably know better what is needed on the projects, not just for the engineers, but to satisfy the surveying end of things. Since they are not always compatible it's best to have that sit down prior to pricing and prior to starting.
The sheet just needs to be a simple "Where is it. Purpose of Survey. Any thing particular I need to know about. Datum requirement if any"
"Purpose of Survey" should answer most of your questions anyway. It's best to sit down with the engineer, listen to their spiel, nod your head knowingly, and then do the job right!
> That was tried at more than one place that I've worked, to no positive effect. With engineers, they already have it figured out that it's the idiot surveyors that can't follow simple instructions. It could never be that they didn't ask for what they really wanted.
I've either been lucky or proactive, but I've worked at four firms that offered both surveying and engineering services and at all four the surveyors & engineers worked well together and there was never an attitude among the engineers that they knew about surveying.
There are always one or two firms in the market that have a reputation for treating the surveyors as the engineers b!tches; but word gets around and most surveyors avoid those places like the plague.
Could just be that I'm fluent in both "engineer" and "management". I've had a few mentors when it comes to surveying; but my main mentor (father) had a B.S. in Chemical Engineering, a M.S. in Nuclear Engineering and an MBA.
> internal. from the engineers. Need to get them to tell me what kind of project it is and get them thinking about what they need before the field work is finished. "Oh, could you also get..."
one firm I worked for used a form that included the scope of work from the contract with the client and the survey budget.
first thing I would do is prepare a budget/estimate for the task requested.
the difficult part was getting the project manager to share that info. some had budgeted bonuses that they did not want you to see.
it is an uphill battle... good luck!
Hey JD, do you mind sending a copy of them my way? I would sure appreciate it.
Yep, you've been fortunate. My experience has been that most firms at least pay lip service to recognizing surveying as a full and separate profession, with a few actually seeming to believe it.
Although most multidiscipline firms seem to have at least a few engineers with an attitude of superiority, or more accurately a certain level of disdain for surveying as a separate profession. In companies with an overall culture of respecting survey as a profession, most of those engineers either come around as they gain experience or they move on.
But I have seen in a few companies, and more than one public agency, an organizational contempt for surveying as a profession and a disdain for surveyors in general and field personnel in particular. I have actually had an engineer tell me in all seriousness that surveying was simply a technical subset of civil engineering and that anyone who could perform the most simple trig calcs was qualified to survey. By way of educational background, he had 1 course in surveying and 1 summer of field experience as compared to my BS in surveying and 8 courses in civil engineering.
The attitude is not ubiquitous among engineers, but it's pervasive enough to draw stereotypes around it and use them to poke fun at the engineers.
> Working in a civil engineering company and we are getting busier so I need something more formal than the verbal request system we are using now. Does anyone have an example of a Survey Request Form that they are willing to share? Email is -andy dot nold- and then after the (at) sign it is -segpllc dot com-.
>
> Thanks.
Interesting setup you have there and I can tell by reading other posts that it is not that uncommon. Personally, I have an entirely different experience while working in the same general setup for over a decade.
Are you the survey manager? Sounds like you probably are. If so, how do they expect you to manage if you simply respond to engineers survey requests? You should be directly involved in the research, cost and scoping longggggg before you receive a request for a survey from an Engineer. There should be a project kickoff meeting with all pertinent parties involved, this meeting should provide you the general schedule and any other pertinent information not previously known to you. Then you simply use the scope of work you prepared get the work done. There are always nuances to the above scenario, but if you aren't actually managing all your doing is being someone survey puppet and that's not a desirable position to be in(unless you have to be)
That said, it sounds like what you should request from the Engineers is a copy of the scope of work along with your budget to accomplish the survey work.
I am the newly minted manager and I am involved on proposals. The form I want to create is specifically for use in our on-call service contracts. We have an existing contracts with the clients to do work without having to submit a proposal for each job. The form will also be passed to the field crew with my markups and will be a checklist for them to make sure the items we talk about in the morning briefing are taken care of.
I appreciate the input, I have a pretty good idea of what the form will look like. Just need to finish a few easements and legal descriptions on billable time before I can spend non-billable time preparing it.
Mr. Cow
A VietNam Vet Ex-Tunnel Rat once explained how to do it: "Just grab 'em by the neck and shake 'em 'till they understand!"
He was serious.
🙂
They're free..
"Another "required" line was the bonehead's name that wrote it. You usually needed this to question them later about the hieroglyphics they left scrawled on the order."
Absolutely LOVE it!!
JD, me too?
Al
