We have RTK-GNSS and robotic total station (and optical level) and have done bits and pieces of topo of pipelines and civil structures etc for small fuel storage terminals (up to say 8 tanks) like the one below. The clients are generally after a 2D plan layout. If a whole terminal was to be done, is scanning the 100% way to go?
I would and show the clients what they can get with the scan data as well for future projects. It probably would be tricky for a first time using scan data though.
I would say yes, scanning is a better option. Main reason; you can spend a week scanning and never have to go back until they add new equipment. Any additional information that you client would request - you would already have.
Just for the error reductions alone it would be worth scanning.
Your looking at the very reason they were developed.
We did a BP heating oil pipeline from berth to tank with a scanner and I would never do it any other way.
Thanks for the replies. Is it the case that from the scan, linework drawings like this (but with better quality drafting) can still be produced?
Richard Imrie, post: 441498, member: 11256 wrote: Thanks for the replies. Is it the case that from the scan, linework drawings like this (but with better quality drafting) can still be produced?
https://www.laserscanningforum.com/ you can learn pretty much everything about scanning from this place..
Great thanks, I'll take a look. Since making the OP, I've had a couple of discussion with guys who are actively scanning so have a better appreciation of the field and office work requirements.
absolutely scan
ask them to take down the chain link
mow the grass short
remove all portable items
I SUSPECT that the end user are TWO D CAD monkey designers and engineers
THIS worry's me for i think you are dealing with Beginners who make your 3D life a hell....
I would pass on this job unless they want a point cloud ready for auotcd C3d 2017
and Autodesk Inventor 2018.
Research out he end user and see if they are 2 Dinosaurs and are worth your time
To your doom / death unless you do your end user checks.
Last Moron check did they provide a basic drawing of the proposed new works
If not run and hide for they are complete ........... Poo
Pete
Peter Kozub, post: 442327, member: 375 wrote: I would pass on this job unless they want a point cloud ready for auotcd C3d 2017
and Autodesd Inventor 2018.
I've been using C3D since 2007, currently 2015 but have 2017 ready in the breech. Is there something new in C3D 2017 for advanced handling of point clouds?
What's the ultimate end use of the data? If it really is only 2D plan layout for asset management/inventory and won't be used for the design of anything to retrofit into the existing would a digital ortho photo generated from a combination of drone pictures, ground photo's and quality GCP be good enough as a deliverable? The hardware and software costs would be much less than scanning. Not nearly as quality of data but it might be good enough for what you're trying to accomplish.
I work with a guy who does these facilities all the time.
He also designs them, he's an engineer that's been in the gas/oil production for a long time
He doesn't scan them, although he does know exactly what is needed, I don't think it takes him very long to topo a site like that, I always wondered how he got them done so quickly. I think I would be there for a week and he would be there for a morning.
Cameron Watson PLS, post: 442331, member: 11407 wrote: What's the ultimate end use of the data? If it really is only 2D plan layout for asset management/inventory and won't be used for the design of anything to retrofit into the existing would a digital ortho photo generated from a combination of drone pictures, ground photo's and quality GCP be good enough as a deliverable? The hardware and software costs would be much less than scanning. Not nearly as quality of data but it might be good enough for what you're trying to accomplish.
Yes I suspect it is only 2D plan layout for inventory and if there was design and modifications they would get the designer or contractor to remeasure. Agree drone photo would be adequate except some of it is covered by canopies for and also there are some vertical pipe stacks. Maybe one reason why I'm asking is to try and find a method of minimizing our pain, both in the field environment of being in full PPE in 34 degree C heat and also the office environment of trying to nut out where the pipes go.
MightyMoe, post: 442332, member: 700 wrote: I work with a guy who does these facilities all the time.
He also designs them, he's an engineer that's been in the gas/oil production for a long time
He doesn't scan them, although he does know exactly what is needed, I don't think it takes him very long to topo a site like that, I always wondered how he got them done so quickly. I think I would be there for a week and he would be there for a morning.
So he sticks to "conventional" methods total station, etc?
Richard Imrie, post: 442330, member: 11256 wrote: I've been using C3D since 2007, currently 2015 but have 2017 ready in the breech. Is there something new in C3D 2017 for advanced handling of point clouds?
Autodesk inventor
Autodesk inventor
Autodesk inventor
C3D to fill in the ground terrain etc
Without comment a good scan plus a proposed scope of work from old school ......
Your choice doom or death
Cameron Watson PLS, post: 442331, member: 11407 wrote: The hardware and software costs would be much less than scanning.
You can hire a scanner and software here for ?ª800 a week.
Peter Kozub, post: 442327, member: 375 wrote: absolutely scan
ask them to take down the chain link
mow the grass short
remove all portable itemsI SUSPECT that the end user are TWO D CAD monkey designers and engineers
THIS worry's me for i think you are dealing with Beginners who make your 3D life a hell....I would pass on this job unless they want a point cloud ready for auotcd C3d 2017
and Autodesk Inventor 2018.Research out he end user and see if they are 2 Dinosaurs and are worth your time
To your doom / death unless you do your end user checks.
Last Moron check did they provide a basic drawing of the proposed new works
If not run and hide for they are complete ........... PooPete
We had someone commission a laser scan recently and they expected the 2D drawings to just magically appear from the scan data.
Laser Scanning piping allows for a more detailed inventory of piping, valve, dials, gauges, elbows, etc.
In more detail look at some of the walkways in the picture. Do they have proper safety precautions? Hand rail? Knee rail? Toeboard? What is the overflow capacity of the leak retention system?
Laser scanning can and does pick up the labels/signs on the equipment. It also can pick up the color which can be very important.
The bigger and more cost saving for owners using laser scanning is savings in fabrication and installation. Know the exact length, exact elbow bend, bolt pattern, etc is very important to installation going smoothly. Proper implementation of dimensional control, 3D Laser Scanning and fabrication QA/QC has been shown to save up 10% of construction costs in the Petro Chem industry.
