In your area, are non land surveyors allowed to remark boundary lines between existing well defined monuments? By well defined monuments, I am talking about a brass or aluminum cap on every angle point with a unique name stamped on it, with inter visible monuments on line between them. A pin finder and shovel are needed, to find the points. A GPS, compass and tape are also helpful. All of the monuments have +- state plane coordinates on them.
What are the rules in your area? Is this a surveying job or a Landscape / House painter job?
> In your area, are non land surveyors allowed to remark boundary lines between existing well defined monuments?
Aside from stretching string lines between boundary corners for construction purposes or pulling wires between them for fence construction, marking boundary lines would be boundary surveying and considered to be a regulated activity.
On the wire pulling side of fence building. I was out at a tract a few weeks ago where a fence builder had laid out the line to be fence by pulling a wire between two corners about 5800 ft. apart. The results were about what you'd expect and fortunately the actual construction hadn't progressed beyond setting about half the posts in drill holes in rock (which were, of course, off like hell :>).
Unfortunately this is often un-enforced around here.
Having said that I have developed a good deal with the fence contractors who work for the big box stores in the area. They have gotten the store to require flagging of property corners prior to any instillation work. So I get $250 to find and flag the corners on what is normally a 1 acre or less lot for a privacy fence to be built.
I would like to get the opinions on the timber company employees who paint their line trees, is this remarking or simply refreshing to extend the life of the marks? Around here they repaint a tract about every 15 years.
QLD, Australia; No. Legislation is in place that only Registered Surveyors can place legally recognised Boundary marks.
Kent,
Did you wait that long on purpose?
> Did you wait that long on purpose?
To tell this story about the fence builder who pulled over a mile of wire to lay out the fence? I wasn't trying to keep that delightful story all to myself.
Is this déjà vu all over again?
Wasn't there an issue with the NFS and/or some non-licensed firm who were freshening up painted lines and monuments that needed maintenance I remember the dialogue here
Random crews that are not licensed paint and repaint timber property boundaries around here all the time.
>
> . So I get $250 to find and flag the corners on what is normally a 1 acre or less lot for a privacy fence to be built.
>
If you are paid to find corners, you are performing a survey which must be performed in accordance with state regulations. In Alabama, that requires a full survey of the property, something I won't do for anything less that $400.
BOUNDARY LINE MAINTENANCE TO BE CONDUCTED ON LAKE DARDANELLE
RUSSELLVILLE, Ark. -- The Army Corps of Engineers is advising landowners adjacent to public lands on Lake Dardanelle that survey crews will soon be conducting boundary line maintenance along the government boundary.
The boundary maintenance on Lake Dardanelle will cover about 34 miles beginning at the south boundary of Old Post Road Park and continue westward along the north bank of the Arkansas River through the Illinois Bayou, Mill Creek and Arkansas Nuclear One areas, ending at Flatwood Road in London, Ark.
The maintenance is being conducted by Mendez Contracting of Plainview, Ark., under contract with the Corps. Survey vehicles will be clearly marked with signs reading “Corps’ Contractor.”
The firm is re-establishing the existing Corps boundary line. Work includes locating established boundary markers, clearing brush for a line of sight, and repainting the boundary line. This is part of the Corps’ annual boundary line maintenance. Missing boundary monuments will be reestablished at a later date by Corps personnel.
Encroachments on public property such as excessive mowing, unauthorized paths, tree cutting, personal property stored on public land, and structures such as sheds, houses and decks will being documented.
The Corps manages Lake Dardanelle and the surrounding public lands to meet the needs of human and natural communities for present and future generations.
DDSM:-O
In Arizona that is a boundary survey and can only be performed by a licensed land surveyor.
The call it "boundary maintenance" to get around the Brooks Act.
You can haggle over technicalities, but in practice these guys are not going to harm the public. There is far more risk in going out to some development and, without sufficient checks, building a fence between found irons that may have been uprooted by a utility company and put back about "where they were".
In my estimation:
Marking a line between "corners" is surveying because you are using judgment that the monuments are corners.
Marking a line between "found monuments" is not surveying.
Refreshing a visible line is not surveying.
My $0.00
> > Did you wait that long on purpose?
>
> To tell this story about the fence builder who pulled over a mile of wire to lay out the fence? I wasn't trying to keep that delightful story all to myself.
thanks for the laugh, I needed that today.
Not sure I agree with y'all....you are telling me that a guy can't have his property corners staked and mark a straight line between them to further identify and preserve he boundary line? How many times does he need to pay you to come out and show you your corners again....should he do it every week before he mows his yard?
Hardly a month goes by where I don't find a fence that is not between actual corners. Some fence contractor finds a broken off sign post or a PC pin and proceeds to measure and paint. All is well until someone tries to sell, then all heck breaks loose. Closing is delayed, Title won't insure, deals get blown, etc., etc....
A full 15 percent of my work is fixing the mistakes of people who shouldn't touch a tape or a hammer (a few of which are licensed). Nearly every dispute I deal with starts there. It is my opinion the public is greatly harmed by unlicensed and sub-standard practice.
Bottom line, identifying corners and the way they connect is surveying. Once identified is another matter. I do agree an owner should be able to string between two pins his surveyor has identified, provided it's not the mile Kent mentioned above...
Remarking Boundary - Oregon
> In your area, are non land surveyors allowed to remark boundary lines between existing well defined monuments? .........
> What are the rules in your area? Is this a surveying job or a Landscape / House painter job?
Oregons Law on the matter is below:-/ but as we know laws are only good when enforced and when they are actually able to sink their teeth into those that break them.o.O
672.005 Additional definitions. .............
...........
...........
(2) “Practice of land surveying” means doing any of the following:
.(a) Providing or offering to provide professional services that apply mathematics, geodesy and other sciences and involve:
..(A) The making of geometric measurements and gathering of related information pertaining to:
....(i) The physical or legal features of the earth;
....(ii) Improvements on the earth; or
....(iii) The space above or below the earth; or
..(B) The development of measurements and information described in subparagraph (A) of this paragraph into graphics, data, maps, plans, reports, descriptions, projects or other survey products.
.(b) Performing geodetic surveys.
.(c) Establishing, reestablishing or replacing boundaries or geodetic control monuments or reference points.
.(d) Locating, relocating, establishing, reestablishing or retracing any property lines or boundaries for any tract of land, road right-of-way or easement.
.(e) Making any survey for the division or subdivision of a tract of land or for the consolidation of tracts of land.
.(f) Locating and laying out alignments, positions or elevations for the construction of fixed works.
.(g) Performing or offering to perform any investigation, interpretation or evaluation of, or any consultation or testimony about, any of the services described in paragraphs (a) to (f) of this subsection.
.(h) Collecting, preparing, manipulating or modifying data related to activities described in paragraphs (a) to (f) of this subsection, other than acting as a scrivener.
.(i) Performing photogrammetric mapping.
.(j) Making surveys that involve horizontal or vertical mapping control or geodetic control.
> In Arizona that is a boundary survey and can only be performed by a licensed land surveyor.
Thank you Jim. Unless you happen to be a realtor with couple stakes and a roll of flagging.... they always do a bang up job. 🙁
I'd trust the fence guy more to do it right. Even the old timer with a K & E....
> thanks for the laugh, I needed that today.
You're welcome. My estimate is that the fence posts set in the drill holes will probably never get pulled out, so for posterity there will be:
(a) my client's 8' high fence built to the true line and
(b) about half a mile of fence posts veering off into the ozone without any fence material on them, waiting for the next seminar presenter to declare them the "established" line.
It would almost be worth doing the research and math to determine optimal size of wire and the tension required to keep 5800 feet of wire off the ground.
