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Please End Our Debate on This Federal Note!

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Hoosier Surveyor
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Please end our debate here before someone gets hurt 🤣.

The image below is a standard entry from the Federal Notes of a section we're in.  What is the word between "Set a" and "1/4 sec post"?

The following image below is for context. Hint - look at the random line going east where they set the 1/4 sec post at 40.00 chains (4th line down) and where they come back west on the true line and (re)set it at 40.00 chains (8th line down).

Bonus points: when they come back west, they set the 1/4 section post at the "something" (highlighted yellow) dist. on the true line. We understand this to be 1/2, but what is written? Examples: here they went 80.00 chains on the ramdon line east and set it at 40.00 chains on the way back west on the true line; If they went 79.96 east on the random, they would set the 1/4 section post at 39.98 chains on the true line on the way back west.


This topic was modified 9 months ago 3 times by Hoosier Surveyor
 
Posted : September 10, 2025 9:28 am
jmcnicholspls
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Can I ask the date of the notes?


 
Posted : September 10, 2025 9:44 am
BStrand
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I'd say it's an abbreviation of temporary especially if it's on the random line.

Edit: Nevermind, they use the same word on the true line.


 
Posted : September 10, 2025 9:45 am
Hoosier Surveyor
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@jmcnicholspls 

would have been around 1815


 
Posted : September 10, 2025 9:47 am
Hoosier Surveyor
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@bstrand 

Temporary is one theory here.

But if it is "temporary" going east on the random line, why would it be "temporary" (same word) when coming back west on the true line? See the second image.


 
Posted : September 10, 2025 9:49 am

BStrand
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@scott-in-indianapolis Yeah, caught that shortly after.

Maybe it's the material of the marker.  That's some rough cursive.  I'm usually kinda not bad at reading this stuff, but this surveyor's style is a different beast.


 
Posted : September 10, 2025 9:54 am
MightyMoe
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Chances are he didn't "return" along that line, that was probably made up to satisfy the note taking regulation. 

And what are the chances this post is still there after 200 years. I'm not going to say it isn't, I've found them from 1879 in great condition, so it's possible. The two bearing trees are right on top of the corner. Those might still be around? A birtch or beech, and I can't tell the other one. 

To tell what type of post it is you might mention the common types of trees in that area, I can make out that it starts with a T, I can't think of many of those except for Teak and those aren't there I assume. Maybe timber. But that doesn't fit his i is clearly done with dots. 


 
Posted : September 10, 2025 11:00 am
Hoosier Surveyor
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@mightymoe 

No, we won't find 210 year old post or witness trees here.  We are interested in the section and qtr. section line lengths, which we can decipher.

So, interpretting the nuances of this guy's note taking style and hand writing really isn't that important as long as we can see what he did and make an educated guess on where to go look.

We're brothers here. If we can't find something legitimate to argue about, I think we'd just make some stuff up.


 
Posted : September 10, 2025 11:38 am
bill93
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I'm no rxpert, but I read that as Temp^y with the last letter raised as was common on many abbreviated words back then.

Same both entries because he just moved the same post to its proper location.

Or was tired when copying rough notes to the clean copy for submittal and used the wrong word.

 

 

 


 
Posted : September 10, 2025 12:05 pm
Hoosier Surveyor
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@bill93 

I might buy your explanation for restting the "temporary" stake.

Was not aware of the last letter raised for abbreviation issue - good to know - thanks!

He definitely meant to write it though, he is consistent for the whole township and many others in the area.


 
Posted : September 10, 2025 12:12 pm

GaryG
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I dont work in the PLSS states but was curious so I tried AI on the first image: Set a __________ 1/4 sec post.

ChatGPT: Get a transer in Europe. 

Transkribus:

Pen to Print:  Let a trufy fu eufeast. 

Google AI: Let a trump's Ju supost.

 

On the second image would that be an abbreviation for average ?  It looks like av.
Went East and set temporary, Came back West and averaged the two positions they measured to. 
 

 


 
Posted : September 10, 2025 12:21 pm
BStrand
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Posted by: @gary_g

On the second image would that be an abbreviation for average ?  It looks like av.

I was thinking that as well but then I thought that couldn't be it since I hadn't heard of averaging ever being used by GLO surveyors.  But maybe it was in this area. 🤔 


 
Posted : September 10, 2025 1:33 pm
Hoosier Surveyor
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@bstrand 

No, average is not anything I've seen before around here either.

 


 
Posted : September 10, 2025 1:48 pm
pls8xx
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Note that running East he "set a" something.

 

Running West he "set the" something. 

 

I read that to mean he moved the monument whatever the "something" was.


 
Posted : September 10, 2025 1:56 pm
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MightyMoe
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I'm really confident he never went west from the SE corner, cause he never went to the SE corner, those notes pretty much confirm it. 95% confidence level on that observation. 


 
Posted : September 10, 2025 2:26 pm

pls8xx
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My wife does genealogy with years of reading old script. She agrees with bill93 that abbreviated words often had the last letter raised with a dot underneath.

She had no opinion on the av-average term.

She read the bearing trees to be Beech and Sugm.- sugar maple. 


 
Posted : September 10, 2025 2:26 pm
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MightyMoe
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Sugar maple.......Of course!!! Good catch. 


 
Posted : September 10, 2025 2:33 pm
bill93
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How often do you see East on random ... 80.00 ?

Seems odd with typical chaining accuracy of the day. If he was faking it I'd expect a made up number with something other than .00


 
Posted : September 10, 2025 7:33 pm
mike-berry
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I agree with @bill93 and @pls8xx that he indicates he took the temporary stake and moved it north  to the true line, 25 links (1/2  the distance of the 50 links he missed the section corner by on his random line). Do the other east/west lines read the same in the township, or just this one?

Edit: and maybe by "av" dist he means a 25 link move at the 1/4, being the average of his starting error on the west end of the random line (0) and ending error at the east end (50 links)


 
Posted : September 10, 2025 10:32 pm
Sluggo
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Fun discussion.

It does seem they moved the temporary post from the original location, since the distance didn't change per the notes then the position change would have been due to a bearing adjustment. The bearing adjustment could be due to convergence per Tiffin's instruction of 1815.

Also of note, averaging was used for the placement of quarter section corners per the same instructions.

I'm a California surveyor so I'm not privy to local practices, especially 210 years ago, for the survey being discussed. 

 


 
Posted : September 10, 2025 10:43 pm

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