Plan Checking - A Horse of a Different Color

Will the 9000' line represent the limit of any of the legal rights of someone, such as, but not limited to, ownership or easement?

If so, is this consistent with State law defining surveying? And do survey standards require durable monuments?

Is this practicing surveying without a license?

Before calling the State Board, I suggest giving the offending party the chance to fix the oversight.

So, 100 feet of progress costs more than $1.1  This must be a large, steel, mainline replacing ancient lines in old downtown.

Posted by: @holy-cow

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This must be a large, steel, mainline ....

It is a large diameter transmission line bringing water to the city, far more than a simple service. This is phase 3 of several phases. Each 20 foot stick of pipe costs around $2000, raw materials. It takes an 6-8 person crew, with machines, to lay about 160 feet of pipe on a good day. Average progress is closer to 100 feet/day.   

Posted by: @pls8xx

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If so, is this consistent with State law defining surveying? And do survey standards require durable monuments? Is this practicing surveying without a license? Before calling the State Board ......

Whoa.... slow your roll, Turbo. I'm talking about prudent practice here, not gross negligence. 

Engineers are allowed to do engineering surveying in Oregon. Just no boundary work, and this is all well within the public rights of way. The locations of which have been determined by PLS's elsewhere in the process. It is questionable that this engineer actually had responsible charge and control of the survey work but so it goes.

Statutory survey standards for appropriate project level survey control monuments do not exist in this state, nor in either of the others I am licensed in. 

Do you really think the board is going to be motivated to discipline anyone for using MAG nails as control points? If so there will soon be an even greater shortage of licensees in this state than there already is. 

Wow 98 CP's. This would be a perfect job for a dual setup with a Robot and GPS together. Use GPS to find and/or identify CP's then switch to the Robot for layout or whatever. My Stonex mounts on top of my 360 prism and yes I know the 360 can mess with my elevations BUT I took a couple seconds to aim the 360 properly and my elevations stayed within 0.01'+/- on the few jobs I have used the dual setup.

98 is way over the top!  We've completed plenty of multi mile waterlines with only 2-3 primary control points.  We only stake our own projects so its very easy to control.

The mag/PK nails every 100' along the route are mostly irrelevant as they get wiped out. Depending on the density of the property the project is passing through at least one permanent monument every 1000' or intervisible for rural projects, urban projects should have intervisible monuments at least at each block intersection. Often waterline projects aren't precisely elevation dependent, however, this one will impact all the other utilities in the route. It must require total re-construction of roadways which means curb, catch basins, manholes, all the good stuff. Levels would be necessary.

Anyway, seems like a good set of recoverable points should be set. It's not that big a deal and will pay off over time. Compared to $100m a few $10k is a nothing. 

First, ask why the elevations are so critical.  There are excellent reasons for this specific job.  However, in the real world, the construction will not be able to be held to such tight values and everyone knows it.  The main thing is to avoid conflict with existing obstacles (and BS separation distances) and to tie into existing water lines (Maybe).  This is not a sewer line where sloppy elevations result in flow problems over the next 200 years.

Have no idea about Portland,but, think about running such a line through downtown Boston or Philadelphia with all of the underground utilities and other obstacles.  A three-dimensional view could be essential throughout the route.

Posted by: @holy-cow

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Have no idea about Portland,but, think about running such a line through downtown Boston or Philadelphia with all of the underground utilities and other obstacles.  A three-dimensional view could be essential throughout the route.

This is not old town Portland - been there, done that, got a sticker for my hard hat - but it is a fully developed suburban area. Utility conflicts will be a daily issue. There have been loads of vacuum excavated test holes drilled to enhance the planning but there are always more to be found.  

I'm with MightyMoe on this one. As a control surveyor, I have made some good money following control surveys done by others. Too many control points is often an issue. Usually there should be a less populated primary control network, then secondary as needed to densify. PK nails are nice, but not for control unless it's a temp control point, and even then I'd use something a little more unusual to differentiate it as control and a little more permanent. Best of luck locating and identifying your points!

Posted by: @mountainhermit

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I'm with MightyMoe on this one.

Then you are with me as well. 

Posted by: @mountainhermit

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PK nails are nice

Technically, hardly anybody (other than John Putnam) has set a PK nail in 20 years.  MAG nails are a distinctly different thing.

Posted by: @mountainhermit

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but not for control unless it's a temp control point

I consider MAG nails to have a half life of about a year. That is, about half of all such nails set will be gone in a year, half of those remaining will be gone at the end of the second year, and so on. In this case the design process has had a gestation period of about 4 years, So I expect to find maybe 12.5% of the original 98.

If I were setting up control for this project (±9000 feet of road alignment) I would proceed as follows:

1. Set ±4 well monumented (ie/brass disk) GPS base stations along the route but a ±a block off the route, and therefore well outside of peril. Preferably these are spots off the road that a GPS base can safely be left, with good sky. 
   • OPUS each point 3-4 hours and run static vectors between them.
   • This 3-4 hour occupation for OPUS can be done, without losing time, while performing step 2.
2. Set Bernsten style copper plugs every ±500 feet along the route. Usually in concrete curb or sidewalk.
   • Typically alternate sides of the road.
   • 1/2" iron rods with plastic cap are an acceptable alternative if the circumstances warrant.
   • Tie with redundant GPS-RTK vectors from the base locations set in step 1. 
3. Traverse through the Bernsten plugs, 2 sets of doubled angles.
   • If you have very good sky for the RTK, levelling through the points may be a satisfactory alternative.
   •   
4. Adjust the lot simultaneously using StarNet.

Then, as I go through the route collecting topo and boundary data I establish total station instrument positions by resection.

Keep in mind that here in the PNW there are quite a lot of trees that degrade RTK positions, so the RTK is frequently not enough on its own with some help. Those of you in other places may find that your mileage varies. 

If you don't believe in adjusting your data stick to your lot jobs and stay away from this sort of work.