Party Wall Problem

If your intent is to be in the "middle of the party wall," then express that clearly in the language. Sounds like you might be getting hung up over the numbers. The boundary is where you "call" it to be, not where your attempt at perfection "measures" it to be.

If your intent is to follow "along the center of the party wall," then state it. If you're attempting to follow the "exterior face of the foundation," then state that. State what you mean, then do your best to describe where the measurements put it.

I'm try to do the best I can under difficult circumstances beyond my control and want to try to account for the 1% I might be wrong by making the party wall the controlling term in the legal. (The property is 16' by 38' and one of 9 unit in the middle of the building - doesn't sound like much but the original legal is off by 5', which would put the property line in someones bedroom)

The phrasing I have most often seen here in New York (where there are plenty of party walls) is as follows:

"....thence north 30 degrees 45 minutes West, part of the distance through a party wall......"

Unless the building is built along the lot line 100 percent, i.e., no front or rear yard setbacks, the course will always be "part of the distance". I have seen older boundary surveys where the amount of wall on either side of the line is shown, but this has not been common in more recent times.

And, unless you have actually surveyed all of the wall, there is no way to tell if the course is actually going down the "center". And what if the wall has a kink, a jog or a bend in it?

"Skelton On Boundaries" has an interesting section on party wall (Section 427 to 439).

Around here, a call to an object is presumed to be the center of it. For instance, if a call was to a creek or road, with no other information, where would you put it?

That presumption should take care of you.

Say it's with the party wall and SHOULD anything ever come up with it, you should be okay. I'd get the attorney to let you re-write the description for the adjoining unit as well. The party wall is the monument.

I like "thence North 30 degrees East, along the center line of a party wall......"

Your intent is along the center of the wall. I believe this statement quantifies that.

:coffee:

I'm with the others. Its not practical to try to use mathematics to describe the exact location of something. You can't locate. So you must describe the intent of the parties and use the mathematics to back you up.

So I'd say some like...thence N xx.xx. xx E a distance of y..thru or along or interior of a party wall..
Talk with the attorney, the title company and owners to see which language would be best to use.

I found THIS on Google Books, maybe it will help;-)

What I try to do, is put myself in the position of the next surveyor that reads this and needs to rebuild what I have described.

If I'm reading your description, can I reasonably come to same points on the ground?

Wow! Isn't this surveying 101. A call to a physical boundary should be superior to a distance or bearing. Isn’t this same as any other physical boundary? You measure as best you can, but a call to a ridge, river, wall, etc….. will be the location of the boundary.

Here In SOZ we locate wall and state on plan that Boundary is Centre line of party wall if walls parallel then add width so reads Boundary is Centre line of party wall 0.23 wide.

That clearly shows intent, so if there is a mathematical error the stated monument holds.

Here is link on party wall in our Bible

RADU

Ahh, if only it were that simple.

The presumption that a call goes to the center of a monument is rebuttable. And in fact is not even a presumption when it comes to certain monuments.

If it's customary to call to the edge of certain monuments, then that is the presumption. For instance, the call to an adjoining building wall (that's not a party wall), or the call to a dike in certain areas (presumed to end at edge).

This was a good question and the best answer (given by many others in so many words) is do not rely on presumptions. If one is going to write contracts (deed descriptions) they should strive to gain the knowledge of the english language requisite to do so.

The best contracts are ones that can't be fought over for years by attorneys skilled in the use of language. This means short and concise, but with clear meaning in each and every word or phrase.

>The property is 16' by 38' and one of 9 unit in the middle of the building - doesn't sound like much but the original legal is off by 5', which would put the property line in someones bedroom)

No it would not. Condo ownership is from paint surface to paint surface, the remainder of the structure is common area.

Is this a tounhouse or a condo?
Five feet? Hey Paul for you in Cali. that's just a good shake and rattle and problem solved.
16x38 sounds like a condo but the center of a common wall sounds like a tounhouse.
If it's a townhouse getting down the center of the wall should be done with descriptive calls and the math will be subservient to the call.

This is a townhouse, and I only have access to the exterior of the building - so I measured an unbuilt foundation to get a feel of how it was constructed and the thicknes of the party walls. This project was started in 2006 and the builder went bankrupt. Very little information remains.

It seems that you make quite an assumption locating an unfinished building and projecting that plan to your building. That's not something I would do. They really won't let you in to measure?

This years update for Backman & Thomas's "A Practical Guide to Disputes Between Adjoining Landowners - Easements" has an extensive update of condo law so you need to check your state laws and case law in your state, any necessary explanation of which is your lawyer's job.

That said, call the wall in a way that fits your state requirements best, surface, center, etc.

Remember, we are the description experts and we need to inform lawyers that a record description only tells the surveyor where to look, the established physical evidence controls the location of the property line.

We, not lawyers nor the courts, provide the means to detect and the procedures to correct, description errors in our land records. Lawyers and courts only become involved when we fail to meet our responsibilities and history has proven that they don't do a very good job.

All of our laws are written is the same language as the platting statutes, if we can understand the platting laws, we can understand the rest of them.

Richard Schaut