Someone calls and asks for an ALTA Survey my first question: "is it only a transaction or also to support an engineered design?" The price changes a lot depending on the answer. About half my work is ALTA and then that's split 50/50 between transaction only and design related. If it will be used in conjunction with a design I want to be able to pick up all the additional detail necessary while I'm there doing the ALTA. 95% of the time if it's only for a transaction the Client won't want to pay for 5 & 11 whether they're the buyer or seller so there wouldn't be much you could design off of it other than some conceptual site planning and building massing.
lmbrls, post: 384140, member: 6823 wrote: A completed Table A should be included in the contract for all ALTA Surveys. This covers utilities, contour intervals and other important site detail. This is a valuable tool for communicating with the Client. Many Clients think of an ALTA as an upgraded survey instead of an instrument for obtaining title insurance.
I agree. The latest ALTA specs also address the way in which buried utility lines are located and/ or shown.
This might be a good time to point out once a survey is completed and delivered, we as surveyors have very little power over its use. I can tell horror stories around the campfire about what has happened to some of my work over the years...and scare the pee-wadding out of younger surveyors.
Long story short: Make sure your survey stands on its own. If there is a location of a "fuzzy" topo feature shown, either fix it, don't show it, or explain any anomalies with a note.
My scariest encounter (and mistake) was showing a 60' wide pipeline easement (that was not described very well) across a property. It's location bordered on ambiguous and although the pipeline had been abandoned (and removed), the dominant tenant retained the easement. I showed it as an item on the ALTA and noted its location was not exact. An A&E firm got a hold of the survey and designed an office complex around the easement, showing the building lines exactly on the easement line I had shown (and guessed at its location, basically). It's still there today...and I have no idea if it's in the right place. The phone never rang on that one thankfully.
Cameron Watson PLS, post: 384158, member: 11407 wrote: Someone calls and asks for an ALTA Survey my first question: "is it only a transaction or also to support an engineered design?" The price changes a lot depending on the answer. About half my work is ALTA and then that's split 50/50 between transaction only and design related. If it will be used in conjunction with a design I want to be able to pick up all the additional detail necessary while I'm there doing the ALTA. 95% of the time if it's only for a transaction the Client won't want to pay for 5 & 11 whether they're the buyer or seller so there wouldn't be much you could design off of it other than some conceptual site planning and building massing.
Typically we make a seperate map, Topography Map, that has all the design features on it. Then let the ALTA stand for it's state purpose, and the Topo for it's purpose. And we love to know in advance as well, so that can do all the field work in one run. It sure helps.
ppm, post: 384169, member: 6808 wrote: Typically we make a seperate map, Topography Map, that has all the design features on it. Then let the ALTA stand for it's state purpose, and the Topo for it's purpose. And we love to know in advance as well, so that can do all the field work in one run. It sure helps.
My deliverable for the design survey part is just CAD. I delete out the title block sheets and anything in model space that wouldn't be relevant to a design survey and away we go. If a Client asked for a separate paper copy of the design survey I would probably charge a little more for that document especially if they wanted it stamped and signed. No one has asked for a separate Topo Survey in paper map form to date.
I'm not grasping why you would want a note that says an ALTA survey is not to be used for design purposes. Either you do a good job or you don't. If some of the easements are ambiguous state that fact clearly in the notes. If you're uncertain about utility lines, say so. If you haven't located the building lines accurately, then start doing it. If you aren't reasonably certain of the boundary, then dig deeper (no pun intended).
Most of my ALTA surveys are for engineers, architects, and developers. I've been in the business long enough to have a clear understanding of what they will need and how far outside the site they will need it, so I go do it, and they pay me accordingly.
Bruce Small, post: 384178, member: 1201 wrote: I'm not grasping why you would want a note that says an ALTA survey is not to be used for design purposes. Either you do a good job or you don't. If some of the easements are ambiguous state that fact clearly in the notes. If you're uncertain about utility lines, say so. If you haven't located the building lines accurately, then start doing it. If you aren't reasonably certain of the boundary, then dig deeper (no pun intended).
Most of my ALTA surveys are for engineers, architects, and developers. I've been in the business long enough to have a clear understanding of what they will need and how far outside the site they will need it, so I go do it, and they pay me accordingly.
Same here, I quote design ALTA'S fot engineers all the time. What is the purpose of a design survey if you don't bother to research everything that might encumber the property.
The simple note stating that a title report hasn't been provided and there may be encumbrances not shown. To me is not professional when performing a design survey. How can one design without knowing everything that may affect the design.
Yes the ALTA was created for the purpose of insuring title. But I find it it more cost-effective to have the design survey become an ALTA and have all the instruments researched, provided and guaranteed by others and my survey either confirm or deny the exception rather than the time it would take me to research the title and guarantee it.
I am asked to provide 'vertical relief with source of information' (Table A, Item 5) for an ALTA/NSPS survey we are doing for financial purposes.?ÿ I asked my Client to request the lender remove this requirement since this is an existing 20yo apartment project - lender refused.
Question:?ÿ since Table A indicates you just need to identify the source (ground survey, aerial map), would you use available County contours from their aerial mapping?
Also, Table A does not specify which items to provide vertical relief and to what accuracy to include finish floors of buildings and hard surfaces.?ÿ Just wondering if there is some NSPS guidance on this issue.
just though I would tag on to this thread as is only thread to discuss vertical relief
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@hpalmer see also: recent thread by Bruce Small called ALTA survey zoning coverage. ?ÿMust be a new trend. ?ÿGreat. ?ÿ(By the way, I am struggling lately with copying and pasting other threads into new ones on my iPhone)??
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It is common to see ALTA surveys cited on title reports. I discourage clients from obtaining an ALTA for design simply because they are memorializing conditions when everyone intends to change them. It is better practice to wait until construction is complete. This also allows time to work through the vacation process for any record encumbrances that need to go away. If the ALTA is a requirement of financing I give them what they need and take mental note of the person making the demand. When it comes to arguing fir the client, I only push the case if they are on board. Blowing up relationships that cost clients money doesn't fly.
As for the OP, I Would let the ALTA stand as what it is. Many ALTA surveys work well for some design, others not so much. If the design professional uses the wrong product to design a project they have failed to meet the standard of care. Fitness for use is a contract issue and doesn't need to clutter the map.
@hpalmer see also: recent thread by Bruce Small called ALTA survey zoning coverage. ?ÿMust be a new trend. ?ÿGreat. ?ÿ(By the way, I am struggling lately with copying and pasting other threads into new ones on my iPhone)??
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its the iphone.....I swear.....?ÿ I hate Iphone, and Im a since 1984 Mac user......
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A large portion of the pre-design surveys I perform have an ALTA component.?ÿ The contracted scope includes the detailed level mapping needed for design which is greater than required by the ALTA.?ÿ My AEC partners request the ATLA certification not for financing but for discovery of incumbrancers that may effect the design.
If your map shows a property line, no matter how you note the inaccuracy, it can and will be used as a property line by a layperson. This is why only licensed surveyors can show property lines on a map.
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The same is true for contours.
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With that said, there are many Engineers performing Topo surveys and showing Tax Map degenerated property lines. They show a note as approximate property. But this not make it correct or legal in NY.
@hpalmer?ÿ My very recent experience is that what they really want is to be able to check off on their list of required items that you have provided Table A item 5. They have no use for the actual data or any comprehension of what it means. Those contours will muddy an otherwise clean drawing, but that's not nearly as important as being able to check the box.
Note: My niche is ALTA surveys and a good portion are for design purposes, so include elevations and contours. Those I do with great care, usually a 25' grid and plenty of break lines. These are a completely different set of circumstances, for design professionals who know what to do with the data. Not to be confused with a clueless title officer or lender. (If I sound irked, believe me, I am.)
My very recent experience is that what they really want is to be able to check off on their list of required items that you have provided Table A item 5. They have no use for the actual data or any comprehension of what it means. Those contours will muddy an otherwise clean drawing, but that's not nearly as important as being able to check the box.
Note: My niche is ALTA surveys and a good portion are for design purposes, so include elevations and contours. Those I do with great care, usually a 25' grid and plenty of break lines. These are a completely different set of circumstances, for design professionals who know what to do with the data. Not to be confused with a clueless title officer or lender. (If I sound irked, believe me, I am.)
Well stated.
