A client forwarded this question today from the surveyor on a construction project for which I prepared the pre-design topo:
We need to know what is meant specifically by the description ??monument well.? ?ÿIs it the top of the monument well lid that was tied in? Or, was the monument well opened and the monument inside tied in. We need to know which of these two scenarios is correct so that we do not provide bad vertical data on the construction stakes.
The site is on a large university campus that has a fairly robust survey control network referenced to NAD83/NAVD88.?ÿ My topo listed 3 campus control points with 3D SPC coordinates.?ÿ The descriptions are those provided by the university system.?ÿ The site is largely existing hardscape with abundant site elevations shown on the topo.?ÿ I thought that any minimally-competent surveyor could determine the answer to this question in a matter of minutes with one or two check shots, but maybe I'm expecting too much.
A few days ago I got the question "Where are these points located?," and I answered that without snarky reference to the fact that anyone looking at the plans or equipped with a functional RTK system ought to be able to walk right up to them.
I can't imagine what the next question is going to be.
That would require the one asking the question (or his designee) to leave the comfort of his/her office to take a look at the REAL WORLD that exists.
A standard issue with monument wells is that the monument is set by a surveyor (we hope) but the monument well structure is placed by someone(s) on the construction crew.?ÿ I have found situations where the monument is at the very limit of being able to take a plumb shot.?ÿ Our county ran into a strange situation with a monument well installation.?ÿ During reconstruction of a county road "someone" decided water would flow better if a new underroad culvert were installed about 50 feet south of where the one being removed was located.?ÿ Guess what.?ÿ That was precisely where the quarter corner monument was to be reset in a monument well.?ÿ Installation of the monument well took place after the road was completed and all asphalt was in place.?ÿ The construction crew set about installing the monument well and discovered how shallow the top of the culvert was.?ÿ They literally had to saw off a large portion in order to set it.?ÿ The bar installed is barely below the bottom of the lid and is definitely shorter than the standard.
"They literally had to saw off a large portion in order to set it.?ÿ The bar installed is barely below the bottom of the lid and is definitely shorter than the standard."
?ÿ
At least they set a full length monument - we had a project a few years ago where the contractor decided that 30" monuments were just too much (our spec and state requirement) so they just cut the pipe where they felt good about it, mostly 8"-12".
In this case the bar that was set might be a total of 12 inches in length.?ÿ The bottom is resting on the top of the concrete culvert (oval-shaped).?ÿ They had to cut off a large portion of the monument well box to rest atop the culvert.?ÿ If the pavement wears down, we all know where the one high spot will be.
I must have misread, i thought they cut into the culvert and stuck the monument through, my bad
Jim, please tell me you essentially ignored this and it went away...?
hypothetical reply "The nature of your question leads me to believe my answer will not be enough to prevent bad information being put on the construction stakes."
Since the questions were routed to me via the university PM, I kept my responses helpful and civil.?ÿ Had they come directly from the construction surveyor I might have gotten a little lecturey.
Assuming the surveyor had never seen a monument well before, it's still a ludicrous question. We use water valve boxes to protect section corners. It's funny that the valve box covers are so deceiving!
Had it been the contracted construction construction surveyor asking me that question, my response to him would be for him to figure it out on his own.?ÿ After all, who among us takes on a layout project without checking the control, both horizontally and vertically before even thinking about setting a stake for construction??ÿ I work for some pretty large developers who are expanding rapidly and hiring rookie PM's that would struggle to assemble a prefab cardboard box.?ÿ Sometimes it's hard not to respond the way would would like to.?ÿ LOL!
A few years ago a friend of mine was doing some layout on a general aviation airport.?ÿ The engineering and design surveying had been done by a large, multistate firm.?ÿ My friend was having problems getting the control to check with anything.?ÿ Turns out the big firm was using the top of the lid for the benchmark elevation.
Sometimes you just shake your head.?ÿ Years ago I had the engineer in charge of a local county DOT send a note asking for the radius of a vertical curve on a set of plans we had prepared.?ÿ No keep in mind he was supposedly a highway designer.?ÿ I bit my lip and didn't send the reply that I wanted, I just sent him a copy of my design report with the "K" factor highlighted.
Andy
@field-dog If there's one thing I've learned in this business, it's that just because it's from a big firm doesn't mean they know what they're doing.
Was "monument well" the description on the Cad point? If so, their question has some validity.?ÿ If it was "IP 2" in Monument well" then they should find another line of work.?ÿ
?ÿ
On a project ?ÿI am currently on, ?ÿI provide utility as-built to the firm that designed the plans. ?ÿAt first, I was plotting the point with a point table then send it as a PDF. ?ÿWell, to make thing faster, one day I just sent the CSV file. I had gotten a response that the CSV file was not accepted file type. I just started sending the points with a point table in a DXF instead. ?ÿWho would not take a CSV.!! ?ÿFrom what I was told her was fresh from college.?ÿ
This sounds like standard issue stuff from a couple of big time dirt companies around here. I always assumed (and am pretty sure I??m right, after years of discussing with other surveyors in the area) that it??s a way to pre-empt any screw up on their part: so the tiniest little bit of doubt or question into your control so that if and when something goes left they automatically respond with ??well, we told you from the beginning...?
