I had to re-learn something that I already knew. I asked an adjacent landowner that I knew if I could park my truck in his yard while I surveyed the adjacentt 100 acre parcel. "Sure, go ahead," he said. We went over to the corner by the road where I found a pin with a cap at a fence corner. An old fence line left that point and went to his other corner where I found a similar marker. "No problem," I am thinking, as he was happy to know that there were survey stakes at those two corners under the leaves. I flagged both corners, and he left for work, and I started my survey. Since I had permission to be in his yard, I set a GPS control point on a high open area in his back yard, a 40-penny mag-nail with a 15" pin flag nearby so I could find it later. I even took a ball point pen and wrote "Dendy survey control point 1" on it, just in case.
I went back yesterday, and my control point, which was about 35 feet south of "the line" was gone. I found bits and pieces of flagging that used to be around the mag nail over the fence, and I also found the pin flag with the top right corner ripped off. I guess that when it was jerked out of the ground so hard and fast, the corner tore off. Maybe not, those little pieces of plastic are hard to tear! My experience is that the flag separates from the pin. Maybe he pulled it up, read the note, did not understand what a "control point" was and just tore the corner off befor he flung it across the fence. Anyway, I lost my point. But I went to stakeout mode and actually found the nailhole in the dirt. It got a new nail, another shot, and is now hidden from view. I will be using another point for control.
Lesson (re-) learned. NEVER leave critical traverse or control points easily visible to someone who doesn't know {#%¥£€} about surveying and does not know the difference between a "survey control point" and "property corner marker." You would think that it would be obvious given that property corner markers are usually near property corners and that anything else has nothing to with the boundary or corners. Those little nails are for the surveyor. That fact is lost on most people.
I am going to adopt another mode of operation that I have used in the past that works OK: use a different color flagging for control points. When everything is orange, it all looks the same, so therefore, to the un-initiated, "that there is a survey marker, and it is over the line, so throw it over the fence!" Good grief.. Another lesson re-learned, and valuable time in the field lost. I am not going to waste any more time on him. I am now wondering how he will react to a National Park Service concrete monument I found for the Natchez Trace Parkway about five feet south of his "corner marker" that is on the east-west section line. It appears that the other surveyor used the old fence as the section line and did not find the marker which was under the dirt edge of an upended stump. Mr. Schonstedt found it for me; about six inches down, a tapered steel reinforced concrete marker about three feet long with a stamped brass disc on top and set in 1955. Maybe he won't pull that one up since it is on his north-south line just south of his fence corner and other marker. Sheeeeesh.......
I always use pink for anything to do with the property lines, orange for my control. That way I just tell the property owner or interested abutters that anything marked in orange is just for me and has nothing to do with the property lines. This doesn't keep things from getting ripped out or angry calls about that point that is "nowhere near the property line", but it helps.
You had permission to park your truck on that day. You didn't have permission to set up your base, set monuments on his property, or to return and do it all again anytime.
The pin flag blew your cover! In my experience, if a control point is getting a little further from the PL than it should be, I bury it and I don't use any flagging.
Go stealth like a ninja next time.
Ninja Surveyor :good:
The general public thinks that if a surveyor ties ribbon on something, it's a property corner, or a line marker. It doesn't matter what you tell them. It doesn't matter what you write on the stakes.
Are you sure an animal didn't do it? Not likely but I had a cow pull one of my traverse points once eating the ribbon off of it. Didn't eat the landscape spike, just the ribbon and I also found the nail hole and put it back. They ate all my ribbon off the laths too.
I was asked to monument some photo id points for a job some years ago, one was at a fence corner kinda near a corner between two governmental properties, I knew the fence was not a boundary but I worried that someone would mistake my cap for a property monument, so I put PP-10 on it and around the edge I stamped-NOT A PROPERTY CORNER.
It still got used (incorrectly) for a property corner some years later on a drawing.
I've learned not to tell anyone about my control points. A spike set with no flagging with a reference of some sort written in a field book serves to keep meddling fingers off my points.A mag in the pave can use flagging and a drill mark and some paint are pretty safe but a nail with flagging in someone's yard is an invitation. They figure you're done and gone and won't be needing that anymore or they are nice to you while you're there and say, "Sure, you can set up there blah blah." Right after supper they're out there cursing you and putting things back in order.
I surveyed a woman's property and found her relatively new points (capped and all) all in order. She thought they were wrong. I told her they were ok. She had even recently put concrete around the tops. Come back next day and all the points were gone. She paid twice for survey work and then yanked her own points out of the ground. When I told her that I could put them all back in exactly the same place they were she asked, "How? They're all missing." I mentioned my off-site control and she fired me on the spot.
Needless to say, I was speechless. I know there are some special people out there but how special will they be?
I was paid up front on that project. I knew she was special and my hunch got me paid in advance.
Maybe Dogs did it. I have watched a dog shred a pc of flaggin, with their foot. And, dig up my ctrl nail.
My policy is:
Set all control pts at least 1" deep.
Set collar of stone around them.
Beat the ground with sledge hammer, to make a depression, and to tighten the ground.
When I leave, cover it with gravel, or similar, so flagging is not visible.
If I put something there to mark it, make sure the point itself is well hidden, and they just get my stake.
Make suunto compass references to a number of objects, so I can compass-resection it back in.
Your guy may not be the one that "Got it" Raccoons, etc will get curious.
Main control points are precious.
N
A trick I learned from a retired surveyor is to always set a rock on-top of the control point and do not mark it with a lath. He did this for so long, I have grown accustomed to turning rocks over when looking for control.
Yep...had a guy build a septic system partly over the line even after I showed him the actual corners. got confused with a control point flag and tried to pin it on me. From that day on....
Exactly, no good comes from leaving control points flagged after the job is done.
I feel your pain. I do as many have suggested. I use blue flagging on my control. If anyone calls questioning my point I ask if it's blue. Glo orange and glo pink can sometimes be mixed up to a casual observer. I usually kick / stomp a small depression to set my point (60d galvanized twisted with waffle head)I kick some leaves over it or place something natural looking over it. I sometimes tie a very small bit of blue flagging on a nearby branch, bush, fence etc just to get me in the area. Cows, horses and even deer are notorious for chewing on flagging and will pull a nail out if you leave them a long enough tail.
And as discussed in a prior thread, if the vet finds your flagged nail or a wad of flagging in the sick livestock, it will be very expensive for you.
Go stealth or you will learn a costly lesson later.
Have had a couple disappear... Flagging causes a lot of problems in yards from my experience. Also started using caps labeled "Control Point".
Stealth, ninja, top secret.....the best way to operate.
