I find it a little amusing when I hear (or read) about surveyors complaining that good help is hard to find. Now think about it a little bit...
From my perspective, WE (professional or life-long surveyors) are really in a small minority. Is it really hard to understand that young folks don't want to get on board in our profession? I've seen people quit after 1 day in the field since 1969.
Take into consideration a temperature variance of probably 100 degrees throughout the year. And clothing that gets ripped to shreds from barbed wire or saw briars. Enjoying a swinging a machete is an acquired taste. Not to mention the mud, wind, windshield time and watch dogs that won't ever get use to you digging by their fence. Oh, throw in an irate property owner every now and again for spice.
I would bet that less than 10% of the people that I have either worked with or hired actually stuck with surveying. I believe we are the outliers for liking surveying.
I remember drifting away from surveying a number of times when I was young. Something kept drawing me back. I can't say why. It's probably a toss up between the lousy pay and the wunnerful field conditions.
We need to watch for those special few field hands that are actually drawn to our profession. Therein lies the perpetuation of our profession.
I once had a young man hound me for three months to hire him. I finally relented and told him to be in the following Monday morning. This was one December and the job he was to be broken in on had a large Mayhaw pond that joined the North line. As soon as he saw me get out of the truck and head toward the pond he stopped and explained to me that he thought we would just be driving around all day and looking at land. He lasted the length of time it took to get from the office to the job. As luck would have it he lived about a mile from that job. He caught a ride with a buddy and was back at the office to get his car before I could change into my rubber boots.
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> Take into consideration a temperature variance of probably 100 degrees throughout the year. And clothing that gets ripped to shreds from barbed wire or saw briars. Enjoying a swinging a machete is an acquired taste. Not to mention the mud, wind, windshield time and watch dogs that won't ever get use to you digging by their fence. Oh, throw in an irate property owner every now and again for spice.
>
But, you are listing all the attractive qualities of our professional trade.
How many times have you seen that sign: You don't have to be crazy to work here, but it helps.
That pretty well sums it up. Hacking through briars and knee deep in mud for half a day, then off to some stuffy courthouse vault for a couple of hours before getting stuck at some workstation drawing lines with key strokes and mouse manuevers. And, the boss is a jerk who firmly believes there is only one way to spell certain words and that claims 129.95 isn't the same as 130.
Especially about the "bogus method."
Don
If you had an abusive childhood
I think it helps.
Here are a few things surveyors do:
Get cussed, yelled at, and occasional guns pulled on them.
Keep on surveying with the longest piece of the chain..... after the 200' one got run over, and needs patched.
Complete a survey, and wind up completely re-doing it, because some new evidence showed up.
Modify some calculator, into a data collector.
work in Rain, mud, snow, air conditioning and heat, all in one day.
Do 4 jobs in 3 states in one day. (Construction staking)
Get out and push, the chariot.
Skip lunch.
Come back for more!
N
If you had an abusive childhood
The real trick in finding good help is that we need to locate staff who a) enjoy working outside and can deal with temperature extremes, b) have the brainpower and motivation to work unsupervised and problemsolve on their own and c). Don't like being covered in grease or chemicals under the same conditions.
Surveyors basically require help that meets a specific set of criteria. The problem is with the traits we are seeking, if those same folks are willing to get filthy, and or expose themselves to nasty chemicals, than the mining industry, oil and gas industry, and heavy construction have the ability to pay considerably more than surveyors ever can.
Yes, crazy
One time I hired a guy and he showed up for work.
The next day he didn't.
The next day he called and said he had admitted himself to a nut house.
Imagine that - one day working for me and you determine you're crazy. And, now as Paul Harvey would say "for the rest of the story. Turns out he had gone home and gotten into a fairly serious fight with his wife and he decided to admit himself to the nut house before the cops came and got him. Never heard how things turned out - didn't care either.
I came back to this job a little over a year ago.
I worked for this small family outfit for a year previous to this as a just a rodman. Laid off when the bubble popped, and came back when the owners son passed on.
You have expressed a lot of the cons of the job. I would like to offer the benefits.
The first year, was not really an enjoyable job. While I did have times running the auto-level, and had lots of training on foul-weather days, it was mainly what you described. Just the bad parts. (Foul weather for the instruments not for people of course!)
Now that I am back and have a more varied job description I find the job a definite career choice. The blend of field and office time is perfect, get physical than go sit on your duff for a couple hours before heading home.
The office work is delving into history, reading and interpreting law, discussion with contractors about requirements of different programs, insurance agents and there constant questions about elevation certificates et cetera. Piling into deeds, not just the one the realty office sent over but how they have been recorded throughout the documented history of the land. Solving closure issues and so forth.
The field work is being out of doors in the "fresh" (depends on your area I suppose) air, tracking down control points if working in an area that you frequent or tracking down local controls or geodetic monuments if out of area. (Geodetic monument hunting is literally digging up history!). Walking keeps you healthy and sunshine boosts vitamin levels that enhance your mood. Surveying different areas presents you with all different types of homes, properties and people.
EDIT: did you ever think of maybe hitting up some geocaching forums to look for potentials candidates? It seems to me that people that enjoy that hobby might enjoy learning Land Surveying.
...those are classic symptoms for sure. You probably have a text-book case of "surveyitis".
Welcome to the dark side.....
> professional trade.
Oxymoron.
Unfortunately I could not attend the wedding for my friends Chad and Brian. They are gay Mormons. They asked folks to bring desserts to the reception. I was all set to bring Jumbo Shrimp, Fat Free Cream and a whole list of oxymoronic foods.
As far as bringing people in, the ecological professions seem to bring in folks with Masters and Doctorates who are willing to go into the field. Granted, the real work is often done by undergraduates or workers, but they also get those folks.
> I once had a young man hound me for three months to hire him. I finally relented and told him to be in the following Monday morning. This was one December and the job he was to be broken in on had a large Mayhaw pond that joined the North line. As soon as he saw me get out of the truck and head toward the pond he stopped and explained to me that he thought we would just be driving around all day and looking at land. He lasted the length of time it took to get from the office to the job. As luck would have it he lived about a mile from that job. He caught a ride with a buddy and was back at the office to get his car before I could change into my rubber boots.
Ugh. I hate water jobs in winter. I drew a bunch this year it seems.
> I find it a little amusing when I hear (or read) about surveyors complaining that good help is hard to find. Now think about it a little bit...
>
> From my perspective, WE (professional or life-long surveyors) are really in a small minority. Is it really hard to understand that young folks don't want to get on board in our profession? I've seen people quit after 1 day in the field since 1969.
>
> Take into consideration a temperature variance of probably 100 degrees throughout the year. And clothing that gets ripped to shreds from barbed wire or saw briars. Enjoying a swinging a machete is an acquired taste. Not to mention the mud, wind, windshield time and watch dogs that won't ever get use to you digging by their fence. Oh, throw in an irate property owner every now and again for spice.
>
> I would bet that less than 10% of the people that I have either worked with or hired actually stuck with surveying. I believe we are the outliers for liking surveying.
>
> I remember drifting away from surveying a number of times when I was young. Something kept drawing me back. I can't say why. It's probably a toss up between the lousy pay and the wunnerful field conditions.
>
> We need to watch for those special few field hands that are actually drawn to our profession. Therein lies the perpetuation of our profession.
I have yet to acquire that taste after 25 summers of this work. Some is better than others, and I'm good at it, but I don't like it. I also abhor running an instrument and making my plat copies. Other than that, I love my job. 🙂
My predecessor here had a field hand for years that he trained from scratch. Sharp Mormon fella. After a few years he was doing just about everything. Running traverses, drafting plats, the two of them got along great, which knowing my predecessor was not always a cake walk. An anal perfectionist with an Irishman's temper, which, I got to know all too well first hand. That helper was set and my predecessor told him he should think about making a career out of surveying, but it would require him to go to school and spend time on his own studying. That just didn't fly with this fellow and he said that if they weren't going to pay him to study, he didn't want none of it. Last word was he went back to Utah where he was from to drive trucks for some mining company.
Oh well. The guy that's willing to invest in himself by doing some studying on his own time? Curious by nature? Thrives on adversity and challenges? That's the guy I want to invest my time in training. Otherwise I'll just end up pissing away my time. It's got to be more than just a job to him. Finding people willing to invest in themselves and not expecting someone else to do it for them? That's the 'hard to find' part.
>
> As far as bringing people in, the ecological professions seem to bring in folks with Masters and Doctorates who are willing to go into the field. Granted, the real work is often done by undergraduates or workers, but they also get those folks.
This is true. There are a lot of PhD and Masters candidates in the field. I was in academia for a few years while while earning my MS in Biology. I focused on ecology. I've been involved in surveying in some way or another since I was 15. I've seen both aspects of what you describe. I am now a licensed surveyor that does not do ecological research.
I can't speak for all ecologists, but from my experience, their belief is that the majority of a surveyor's work is an evil that exacerbates the problems they are trying to solve...mostly development. Movements like smart development and mixed use zoning are areas of common ground, however.
I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding in the general public of what we do as a profession...and a disconnect as to why it's important to perform our work in a particular way. We are taught from the beginning that 2+2=4 and phenomenon are either black or white. Surveying requires the discipline and understanding to view these as not always true. This may be one of many reasons that folks already 'field ready' do not even know surveying is an option for them.
Off topic and I may get flamed for this opinion, but perhaps to become a licensed, boundary surveyor one should have to earn a specialized, graduate degree. Up the ante. How many other specialty professions can you think of do not require a higher degree? But this really has nothing to do with finding help...rant over.
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> Especially about the "bogus method."
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> Don
Don
I have had that picture for 30+ years. Until recently it has hung on the wall in my office nearly every where I have worked.
B-)
That's funny. The first time I saw it was in another surveyor's office.
Don
:good:
Good surveyors typically aren't looking for work, which make them hard to come by. However, good surveyors attract good surveyors. Keep your professionalism, work ethic, and passion at your highest level. Staying active in your State Society can't hurt either. Just things I've learned.
:good:
That's solid.
