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Easement encroachment on adjoining property

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III
 III
(@geomatique)
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Hello all,

I recently completed a survey for an individual “Joe” on a building lot adjoining an individual “bob”. There is a 20’ drainage easement along their common line (10’ each side). There is a wood fence and possibly a shed inside this easement on Bobs side.

After completing the survey I find out that Joe and Bob have been battling each other over a different commercial property (also neighbors there). Joe bought said lot hoping the fence was over the property line but it’s not. After seeing that the fence was still located in a drainage easement which is  against town codes he now plans to sue Bob and the town to have it removed. He is also hoping to have the shed removed which I do not show and did not locate for my survey since it was obviously not encroaching on Joe’s lot.

Joes lawyer calls and wants me to locate the shed and sign an affidavit for court stating I located the fence and shed in the easement and they should be removed as it’s against town codes.

I will not be locating the shed or signing an affidavit for use in court stating such facts.

As the map is a signed legal document itself and is filed. I don’t see the point in an affidavit stating the facts shown on my survey other than to testify that I did in fact survey the property and the information shown on the map is correct. 

Thoughts? 

 


 
Posted : November 26, 2024 8:28 pm
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thebionicman
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Nearly every case I'm involved with the experts prepare affidavits laying out the facts for the court. This is your opportunity to show the hearing officer a clear path to a correct decision.

What you are suggesting is tantamount to telling the judge to figure it out himself. He is likely to take up that challenge and come up with a painfully incorrect judgment (probably against your client).


 
Posted : November 26, 2024 9:23 pm
III
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I don’t see it that way. The judge will have my map showing the easement and the fence located inside it. With the affidavit stating what I did and what’s shown on the map.

I do not decide what are code violations and their remedies, that is the town codes officers job. If I were surveying this easement for the town I would feel fine with locating the shed as it may potentially be in their easement. As of now I would have to locate the shed reflectorless since I cannot access inside the fence on bobs property. This easement is not for my client and does not affect his property aside from the 10’ half which is clear. 

If the judge orders the towns easement to be cleared he would request a surveyor independent from the case to verify that.

 


 
Posted : November 27, 2024 5:43 am
III
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I feel any further location by me on the neighbors property is a fishing expedition for my clients potential lawsuit. I get the feeling my clients lawyer wants me to state as an “expert” what they think should be done regarding the potential codes violations because they don’t think the town lawyer and codes officer will require the fence and/or shed be removed.


 
Posted : November 27, 2024 6:30 am
GaryG
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So Joe wants to sue Bob because Joe's shed and fence are in the TOWN easement. No effect on Joe at all? Shouldn't that be the towns job. Wow, Joe has some issues.


 
Posted : November 27, 2024 6:41 am
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peter-lothian
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I agree that you should not sign any statement about "what should be done" regarding the town codes. Stick to your survey.


 
Posted : November 27, 2024 7:27 am
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Tom Bushelman
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Around here, there are storm easements down most subdivision lot lines but fences are commonly erected on the property lines with no issue.  Locating things that are not on the property you are surveying was not in the original scope of services I'm guessing.  This is an opportunity to make a pile of cash.  Prices go way up when people get difficult.  


 
Posted : November 27, 2024 7:42 am
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III
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These two are well into 6 figures fighting with each other across various properties. It’s personal for them. They’re on Facebook, the local radio, the local paper. I’d rather not insert myself further and have any of that pointed in my direction. Regardless of the opportunity to make more money I see this as my exit. 


 
Posted : November 27, 2024 7:51 am
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lurker
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Where does it say a fence can't be built in a drainage easement? Is it explicit in the town codes?Are you an expert on the town codes? Tell these childish people they have your survey and you will be providing no more services for them. You would regret enabling this kind of behavior.


 
Posted : November 27, 2024 8:58 am
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Norm
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Posted by: @geomatique

Joes lawyer calls and wants me to locate the shed and sign an affidavit for court stating I located the fence and shed in the easement and they should be removed as it’s against town codes.

Posted by: @geomatique

These two are well into 6 figures fighting with each other across various properties.

You're missing a good business opportunity. You could tell them you prepare court exhibits and affidavits for 5x the cost of a survey. But your affidavit will state only that you have located the shed relative to the easement. Interpreting town ordinances is not included. The result will either be good for business or get you off the hook which is what you want anyway.


 
Posted : November 27, 2024 9:28 am
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Norman_Oklahoma
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As mapping experts we surveyors forget that a lot of people just cannot comprehend a map. A map might as well be hieroglyphics to them. A great many people of this sort are attorneys, and attorneys become judges. 

Why do legal descriptions always need to be in words? The exhibit map should do. But if one of Exhibit A or Exhibit B gets jettisoned, it is always the map, isn't it? Check out any one of the case law Reporters. Three inch thick volumes of fine print case law, maybe a dozen sketches per thousand pages. Lawyers and courts deal in words, not pictures. 

So I would not object to a worded statement summarizing the results of a survey. Nevertheless, I would be very careful about the exact wording- just as I would with a legal description.   


 
Posted : November 27, 2024 10:53 am
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MightyMoe
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No to code enforcement statements. The affidavit shouldn't be an issue, reference the survey map and state what you did.

Be careful about remote sensing, there are statutes that limit what can be done.

 


 
Posted : November 27, 2024 11:08 am
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holy-cow
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Sounds like the age-old story of Joe and Bob.  Bob's ex-wife is now Joe's wife.  Joe wants Bob to take her back.  Until that happens it is law-suit-city.


 
Posted : November 27, 2024 11:11 am
thebionicman
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@geomatique I read your first post as saying flat no to the affidavit. It seems a bit more nuanced than that. If you have no expertise related to the ordinance stay away from it. You will need to provide an affidavit regarding your survey and related observations (assuming you are serving as an expert).

As for the statements saying not to speak to the ordinance..

While I agree being a Surveyor may not qualify a person as an expert in a given ordinance, it also does not preclude it....

 

 


 
Posted : November 27, 2024 5:06 pm
III
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Yes I didn’t want to be involved at all at first. The situation is deteriorating quickly, this evening I learned that the town blocked access to my clients lot at the road with backhoes, plow trucks and set up a police tower. 


 
Posted : November 27, 2024 5:53 pm

jitterboogie
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@geomatique 

Wow. 6 figs.  That's almost where you want to have a severability clause and NDA to you as a company to avoid the potential negative blowback from these two yutzes. Granted you're beholden to the laws of the surveyor client relationship, but jeezlouise, it's. It like they're not doing this intentionally.

I've adopted a fairly rigid position of "Let's not make lawyers any more money, at all if possible. Seriously. "

Seems like they've got a hobby of dragging unsuspecting people into their cockamamie BS like those Duke brothers did back in the 80s...

 

Somanombatches!

 

 

 


 
Posted : November 28, 2024 3:38 pm
murphy
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I agree with Norman_Oklahoma regarding the vast differences in folk's ability to interpret maps.  There's something about scale that does not compute with some folks and it seems to be independent of their level of education.


 
Posted : November 30, 2024 6:09 am