The corner description my colleague used was "X imprinted in concrete". Review comment from a PE: "Are you sure its an 'X' and not a '+'? Please verify." He knew to preemptively answer the next question (How do you know). The reply to the comment was "If the lines that make up the 'X' or '+' are parallel and perpendicular to the road, its a '+'. If they are diagonal to the road, its an 'X'. In this case, its an 'X'." Apparently the explanation was sufficient. My answer would have been along the lines of "Depends on which way you're facing when you read it." Mine probably wouldn't have been sufficient. What a comment!
It depends on the angle of intersection not on the point of view.
lordy, what a waste of everyone's time
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Interesting
We had a neighborhood that we would collect the back of walk where there was actually a Maltese cross that was stamped into the concrete by a certain developer to certain concrete crew for the property boundary area and it was always fun riding into the field notes and also typing into the data collector found Maltese cross
lordy, what a waste of everyone's time
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Didn't you see the word "engineer", in the initials PE?
Has ANYBODY, EVER had an engineer do something, that was a waste of time?
I once had to rotate a job, on the phone, for an engineer, so that the south line was EW. He was using the south line as the base line, and he did not know how to think, except with a due EW base line, and he did not know how to rotate in acad 10, as I remember.
N
Kind of cool.?ÿ But my note would probably be, "X-CONCF"
While I agree that the?ÿ difference between a "X" and a "+" in concrete is insignificant, I'm kind of cool on the idea of setting either such a thing as a "monument" in the first place.?ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ
Here an X vs + is significant. A + is an offset from the front corners on the property line extended while an X is a point of tangency of the curve in a property line. These get cut in the concrete in such a way that they can not be confused. An X having acute and obtuse angles and the + having 90 degree angles.
It won't last as long as a buried pipe. If the concrete is there first and you don't want to smash it, these are good options: https://www.berntsen.com/Surveying/Concrete-Survey-Markers
At least they should be recognized as something that might need to be protected/reestablished by the people repairing the concrete.?ÿ
Here an X vs + is significant. A + is an offset from the front corners on the property line extended while an X is a point of tangency of the curve in a property line. These get cut in the concrete in such a way that they can not be confused. An X having acute and obtuse angles and the + having 90 degree angles.
Hmmm. This sounds like skirting the edge of the Swiss Watch Zone.
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My first response: if you take the hat off (meaning your arse), it will look like an "X".
And regardless of what anyone says, unless you inscribe the correct perspective on the mon, there is no difference.
@lurker?ÿ
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Where is "here"? I have seen many +'s then when I move a bit they look like x's. How do you make them so that they cannot be confused? Genuinely curious.
@dmyhill I guess the same way you know how to add or multiply in a math problem. an x and a + are different in more ways than just orientation. An x does not have lines that are perpendicular to each other whereas a + does. It is very easy to exaggerate the x so that it will never look like a +.
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@peter-lothian It is much easier to distinguish between an x and a + than it is to find pits marked with a charcoal stake or stones buried 3 feet below the surface. Really not much of a task at all.
@aliquot?ÿ
I can see that I will need to add some budget to projects so that we can measure that angle!
@lurker?ÿ
except the bottom of the page or screen is pretty much self-explanatory, and a hand scribed x or + might not have perfect angles. What if you tried to make + and were off by a bit? How many degrees before it is an x? Do you use a protractor to make the determination? Do you note the angle in your observations?
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I am sorry to be a bit sarcastic/trolling there, but seriously, it seems a bit absurd from the outside. I am sure it makes perfect sense in practice.
@dmyhill Yes if it is off by more than 2 degrees it definitely is an x and not a +. We spend an inordinate amount of time trying to make the judgment. You would not believe the heartache and stress we go through trying to tell whether it is an x or a + It is almost unbearable.
It really takes a highly trained individual to distinguish between the two.
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It boils my blood when Engineers review and comment of survey plans, it happens to me all the time on subdivision plans.?ÿ Most of them only do it and write stupid comments so they can bilk our client's escrow account.
I deal with one particular guy who reviews my plans as the Township Engineer regularly and has absolutely no clue of anything survey related.?ÿ Every time I get his insane comments I have to spend the time to back him down and put him back into his own area of practice.?ÿ It kills me that they are well aware of the legal separation between surveying and engineering but don't adhere to it.?ÿ
I like to do this:
I unroll the drawings that they're looking at. they're calling them as builts and clearly I see on there stamped and written across the title page etc it says construction drawings or final construction drawings.
This usually only gets the younger engineers or the ones that aren't very confident but I ask them " how do you know those are as builts?"
Then I turn the page and I show them the Big Red cloud of change and I go 'well if these are as builts I'm wondering if they got as built after the change was approved and stamped or before the approval on stamp but probably would behoove you to go ask someone if these are actually the as builts because they don't look like as builts to me.
I'm just a biologist.
Messing with the engineer Sasquatches.
