Woke up grumpy so be forewarned.
It would solve 95% of all the substandard surveying going on if everyone had to re-take the exams every 4 years to renew their license.
Think about it. No more excuses for not knowing GPS, grid/ground, least squares, GIS.
Maybe even a chance to weed out those who make maps that resemble a survey but don't resolve ambiguities based on arbitrary platitudes.
Continuing education doesn't seem to cut it. Let's see you try to nap through the exam.
I'm gonna write my Congresspersons, so you had better start studying ...
well it is a good day to begin!
Spring arrived this morning so what better day is it to clean the house.
Honestly, I don't think education/experience/testing/knowledge of new tech. has anything to do with substandard practice. I beleive that most surveyors who cut corners to the point being criminally negligent know exactly what they are supposed to be doing, they just bid the job so low that they can't afford to do it right. To me, substandard surveying is more a sign of a character flaw than a lack of education.
Rather than testing, perhaps a randomly selected file folder/drawing should be submitted and examined, every four years. The board sends you letter, saying "send us all the research, feild notes, Raw Data files, and final prints for a boundary survey you completed in June of 2010 ... "
That would keep the low baller's on their toes.
really? another test? you know those things get harder to take the older you are, right?
until LS is required, how could you mandate that every surveyor knows it? (i know LS, but I know I am not required to use it) same for GPS. everyone should know their limitations (some of us have more than others)
I like the idea of peer review as they do in Ontario,Canada. Of course they regulate themselves so it is a little easier to do, but they can walk into your office anytime they want a pull a file for review (as I understand it)
Re-examination might weed out a few slackers and retirees.
My opinion is the worst offenders (when it comes to cheapo-cartoon surveys) are the 'wiley' ones that probably wouldn't have any trouble with re-examination. They spend a lot of time and effort riding the 'edge' and cashing checks.
I've always said those surveyors don't have clients, they have victims.
We're probably stuck with 'em....although I do make a fair amount of money cleaning up messes that some of them leave.
Not everyone uses GPS like you apparently do. My work does not include grid to ground translations. I had to know hydrology to pass my exam and I will never use the Manning's Equation. Just another anchor around the surveyors neck. If you pass the boards, you are licensed. If you happen to be lazy and don't care about anything, it will show up in your work and eventually you will be sued and run out of town on a rail. I have work to do and don't have time for more exams. I would vote nay.
Pull the ole....everyone that gets licensed from now on has to take a test to renew theirs. Much easier to get all the licensed land surveyors to agree that all the future land surveyors have to take tests....;-)
Seriously, I don't know what should be done for incompetence and I don't know if that would weed guys out.
In the 25yrs+ since being tested, I have used 60% of what I was tested on a regular basis.
Not all GPS territories are equal and grid to ground is hardly a problem in an area that falls between 250 to 400 MSL and my work deals with mostly horizontal ocntrol.
I do a topo or stake a well about once every 10rys.
The last construction job I did was laying out a Sonic about 12rys ago.
Maybe 10% of my work in within city limits.
When a surveyor can not keep up with current regulations and expectations from their clients, word spreads and their opportunities fade.
Unfortunately many of our clients have evolved into worrying more about spelling and appearance of the information on the heading of our work more than the content and what is physically on the ground.
Far too many rely upon price alone and never quality, wondering why we need to visit the property at all.
The last thing that made me grumpy over a survey was a few days ago. A note in a Title Commitment mentioned that it was based upon research of the last 10yrs only.
B-)
why start and stop w/ surveyors. let's include engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc. make everyone that has to take a test to become licensed/registered take it again every few years. suggest that to your congress critter. something tells me that it ain't gonna fly, especially if the lawyers are included.
w/ all due respect, i'll vote nay, also.
best regards
And while you're at it make sure all the Lawyers need to retake the Bar exams every four years too!
And the Doctors their Medical Boards every 4 years as well!
The PE's should definitely have to re-test on the same schedule......
(See where this could end up going?....)
Why is everyone up in arms about being re-tested? Practical experience means nothing in the surveying profession! [sarcasm][/sarcasm]
IMHO the test they have out there now are moronic. Just because someone can pass an exam does not mean that they have the skills to survey on the ground, hence that is why we see so many pin farms out there anymore. Some of the unregistered crew chiefs that I had when starting out could survey circles around a lot of registered people. And one last thing, if testing is the best way there is to measure the competencies of the surveyor, then why are the tests only offered twice a year? Rant off.
> Honestly, I don't think education/experience/testing/knowledge of new tech. has anything to do with substandard practice. I beleive that most surveyors who cut corners to the point being criminally negligent know exactly what they are supposed to be doing, they just bid the job so low that they can't afford to do it right. To me, substandard surveying is more a sign of a character flaw than a lack of education.
>
> Rather than testing, perhaps a randomly selected file folder/drawing should be submitted and examined, every four years. The board sends you letter, saying "send us all the research, feild notes, Raw Data files, and final prints for a boundary survey you completed in June of 2010 ... "
>
> That would keep the low baller's on their toes.
:good: I think you are right on.
Do not know if this is true, but I was told by a retired PLS that he worked part time in Florida. He would look at recorded drawings trying to find things that did not met the standards, like "scale bar, north arrow, witnesses ect.." He said the PLS got fined and he got a percentage of that.Is this true?
the true dilema
You can not test integrity with a multiple choice question.
> Woke up grumpy so be forewarned.
>
> It would solve 95% of all the substandard surveying going on if everyone had to re-take the exams every 4 years to renew their license.
>
> Think about it. No more excuses for not knowing GPS, grid/ground, least squares, GIS.
> Maybe even a chance to weed out those who make maps that resemble a survey but don't resolve ambiguities based on arbitrary platitudes.
>
> Continuing education doesn't seem to cut it. Let's see you try to nap through the exam.
>
> I'm gonna write my Congresspersons, so you had better start studying ...
Maybe you should have let grumpy sleep in.
I suggest starting with your own (glass) house.:-/
93% of my state is considered timberland so you can still be a good surveyor without using GPS. And I live GIS is pretty much the Tax Map.
:good:
> Rather than testing, perhaps a randomly selected file folder/drawing should be submitted and examined, every four years. The board sends you letter, saying "send us all the research, feild notes, Raw Data files, and final prints for a boundary survey you completed in June of 2010 ... "
No thanks. It's bad enough that in my state of the 30+ professions and trades that are regulated, only two have codified minimum standards of practice: land surveyors and home inspectors. If it gets to the point that the principal has to do random locker inspections to make sure the "professionals" are on the up and up, I'll turn in my license and find another way to make a living.
Bring it on! When we're done, those who remain licensed can put benefits back on the table for our employees, and afford to set money aside for retirement!
Those who don't pass can fight over the greeter job at Wal-Mart, and retake the exam in 6 months at a cost of $400+.
You win.
