Chaos is OK. Sometimes.
Working in an old city subdivision. Trying to hold the street width in all cases leads to chaos as you are following surveys in six blocks by six surveyors in six different decades. Do you ignore the prior surveys?
I think I'd stay in my block.
I've never found original monuments that match the 60' shown street width 60.00' apart. Usually it's between 59.5 and 60.5 which means 60 to me, so........is this what you mean, hold between 59.5 and 60.5 or do you mean 60.00'. I will hold monuments over fantasy numbers.
I believe old city subdivisions with many surveys over decades can be some of the hardest surveying there is. It is best to "split curbs, proceeded as shown" Ha!
This is a statement that was very common on many old surveys in my area.
"This is a statement that was very common on many old surveys in my area."
I believe that it happened more often than it was so stated.
Good, uniform curb lines are a monument of sorts that should be considered along with the random bits of iron.
I'm one who prefers to hold full street widths. Nevertheless, there are times when that just doesn't work. For example, there is one street in downtown Portland of my knowledge which has absorbed all the accumulated deficiency. The rest are full width.
As far as old surveys go - I try my best to respect them and their monuments, but remember that the mere setting of monuments that are not called for in the writings is of little consequence. Property owners on both sides must know about them and act in reliance upon them, usually for extended periods of time, for them to acquire dignity.
I remember a small lot survey, no monuments anywhere to be found. We located curbline on our frontage street as well as the streets that defined the block. We were amazed how they all worked. Once we set up CL and computed the lots, our rebar fell right inline with the fences and various possession. Talk about feeling good ! Still got out of the neighborhood before too many people got home from work. 😆
I owned a house for a few years in the largest city in the county. The street was a well-maintained crushed rock road. No curbs, no ditches, no nothing. The plat for that section of town was about 125 years old at the time. What few surveys had made it into the record books differed considerably in age and methods used. Money losing type of job where you feel obligated to search at every conceivable location where someone may have done a survey but did not record it.
"Good, uniform curb lines are a monument of sorts that should be considered along with the random bits of iron."
When I first started surveying in town that is how we always got started. Split curbs find intersections and then start looking for other irons.
The fun stuff is being discussed here. Putting the puzzle together. That’s some of what I had missed for sure.
Love hearing how other seasoned professionals deal with this stuff!
In many ways Lot/Block surveys are similar to Section surveys.
The 4 types of Section monuments are a valid way to think of urban evidence.
Much like Iowa section corners it will be very rare to find any existing monuments in an older subdivision.
Existing monument being an original in place monument.
There isn't any chance for an existent monument in any old subdivisions I've worked in.
So that leaves obliterated and lost monuments.
As we all know an obliterated monument has a far higher level of importance in Sectional surveys than a lost monument which is the lowest level. Much of evaluating lot/block surveys come down to that; is the evidence sufficient to declare a position an obliterated corner or are you going to declare it lost. We all know courts will favor obliterated monuments over lost ones, so it pays to be very careful rejecting evidence.
Interesting question and I've run into this scenario many times. If I can hold the block geometry per the original plat and get the calculated ROW width(s) to match the plat call within a tenth or so, I call the ROW width as per the plat. If trying to hold the platted ROW width(s) lead to chaos as you point out, I will typically hold the block geometry per the evidence I find and label the roads as "Reported as 60 foot right of way per [insert record document recording info here]". In these instances I graphically show all of the found supporting monumentation that supports my conclusion.
I run into this scenario much more frequently with in town subdivision plats created +/- 50 years ago (or more), and IMO you have to take into account the methods of Surveying at that time and the instruments in use. We are great "button pushers" today with the advancements in the technology, an advantage our prior brethren did not have at that time.
