Is there a consensus among surveyors concerning how long BMs set in trees remain valid? I've heard trees grow out instead of up, which doesn't make sense to me. I guess a railroad spike set chest high in a large oak tree, for example, remains somewhat stable because the interior of the tree trunk grows up while the exterior doesn't?
A tree grows by adding rings. A branch X meters above ground stays at X meters. Likewise a spike.
Putting a nail in a tree that might someday be harvested for lumber is seriously frowned on because it could get broken off or overgrown, causing saw damage and safety problems.
A nail placed in a root would be preferred by lumberers but may be less stable .
I thought setting benchmarks in trees was the second most preferable location, after a large concrete mass, then Hurricane Michael hit. Don't set benchmarks in trees.
Setting bench marks in trees is never valid.
Historic boundaries and conservation efforts.
Setting RR spk in trees for BM was very common in the 50's and 60's on highway relocation projects. And yes, they hold elevation. We uncovered many knotholes in search of them. Trees were often the only semi-stable object available in the desired vicinity. Of course this was third order leveling. No need to do it anymore for several reasons.?ÿ
Surveying for sanitary sewer lines we set thousands of TBMs in trees over the years.?ÿ Following creeks there are often nowhere else to set one.?ÿ We always tried to set them no more than 1500 feet apart so at least on would show up on each P&P sheet.?ÿ We did set them low on the trees so that when harvesting the trees the cuts would be made above the benchmark.?ÿ Power poles are another matter entirely and we avoided them.
Andy
Of course it is. May not be your preference, though.
Hydrant flange bolts, utility poles, trees. Set more than one so the contractor can check between
Nails or RR spikes in trees or power poles a no-no, pin flags in pasture lands a no-no, paint puked all over sidewalks a no-no.
I thought only male power poles had such appendages.?ÿ Roughly half of all power poles have one.
Hydrant flange bolts
Hydrants have been discussed here a few times, and aren't great. They move too much.?ÿ Ok as a turning point but dont bet on months later.
There was also a horror story about a hydrant that got replaced with a different model between the topo and construction. Nobody set/checked another BM and ended up with a mall graded a foot low with drainage problems meaning it had to be fixed.
Thank you for breaking the ice Divine Bovine. I'm glad to not be the only one with a twelve year old brain. Professionalism notwithstanding, has no one else looked at the title of this thread and considered a surveyor squatted in a hollow tree with a roll of toilet paper in his hand.
I don't remember that being discussed, but I've never seen where they haven't been good, even years later. I chisel and X or use an awl. I write a note saying to check between BM's. I don't know the liability involved, though. Not going to worry about a few hundredths, but a foot, yeah, that's an issue.
Hydrants were argued on this thread. Some reported success. A few reported problems. Nearly all would agree that another check is needed.
https://surveyorconnect.com/community/surveying-geomatics/fire-hydrants-as-benchmarks/
I do so with the hope that all will understand it is intended as humor. Sadly, I know far too many adults whose business acumen has not improved since age twelve.
Humor is a tool I use more frequently than most. I suppose there are some who view it as signifying a lack of knowledge or intelligence. That is their problem, not mine.
Remember, it's a punderful world.
We all have probably used fire hydrants, but I have staked for water lines (& fire hydrants) that were moved vertically to not interfere with other utilities that were being mitigated.
Utility poles are private property and should not have extraneous materials put in them, even staples for "Lost Dog-Reward" posters. Safety issue for pole climbers. While on my lunch hour, working in Memphis, TN 30+ years ago, I watched Memphis LG&W install a utility pole for new service at Holiday Inn World Headquarters. Had a pre-loaded TBM RR spike in it, with double guard stakes and an elevation written on it. I went and pulled the guard stakes off so no-one could screw that up.
In Texas, trees are private property and in many cases, should not have spikes or nails set in them w/o owner's permission or approval.
Yes, I have done all of those things mentioned, but have adopted new procedures.
Just my .02'
Happy Leveling!
Agreed. They are not my preference. Nor are utility poles.
I was embarrassed to work on one project where the previous surveyor had placed a railroad spike in a huge white pine tree, painted concentric circles around it (like a bullseye) and painted TBM in what seemed like 3-feet high letters. Shame.
Also,everyone should make note, taking railroad spikes from along the tracks is not okay. You should be buying them if you intend to use them for any purpose.
Historic boundaries and conservation efforts.
staples for "Lost Dog-Reward" posters.?ÿ Safety issue for pole climbers.?ÿ
Staples and small nails are probably more of a hazard than a big spike, because they can cause cuts in people, their clothes, harnesses, and worst of all in insulating gloves.
@tom-bushelman code brown.
I don't know about legalities, but spikes/nails in trees can be very dangerous. Up here in Nor Cal eco protesters set nails and spikes in trees they know are going to be cut down as it can damage equipment and injure workers. Think about using a chain saw on a tree, hitting a hidden spike, the chain snaps and flings out. People have been killed by this.